Bad fold . help from the maths guys please.

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Bad fold . help from the maths guys please.

Postby JimmyChances » Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:55 pm

Could do with some maths guys to help me with this flop effective allin call.
im pretty sure ive made a horrible fold here, especially seen as though i had a gut shot to go with the nut flush with 2 overs. anyways, some maths on this would help me see how bad a mistake ive made, please.

villains stats Camille78 vpip 55 pfr 9 3bet 0 wtsd 15 wtsdw 50 call open raise 29% no. hands 198

Table #29361009 - Rapanui's Leela
Starting Hand #1380558715
Start time of hand: 05 Jul 2010 15:54:47
Last Hand #1380557892
Game Type: HOLD'EM
Limit Type: NO LIMIT
Table Type: RING
Money Type: REAL MONEY
Blinds are now $0.25/$0.50
Button is at seat 6
Seat 1: edgR8 - $62.57
Seat 2: kouill2loup - $49
Seat 3: (VILLAIN) camille78 - $28.15
Seat 4: PKRLouise - $36.31
Seat 5: HERO JimmyChances - $49.75
Seat 6: Balai49 - $17.51
Moving Button to seat 1
kouill2loup posts small blind ($0.25)
camille78 posts big blind ($0.50)
Shuffling Deck
Dealing Cards
Dealing [Jc Ad] to JimmyChances
PKRLouise folds
PKRLouise:"lowstack donk"

JimmyChances raises to $2
Balai49 folds
edgR8 calls $2
kouill2loup folds
camille78 calls $2

PKRLouise rebuys $13.69

main pot $6.25

Dealing Flop [4d 5d 3d]
camille78 checks
JimmyChances bets $4
edgR8 folds
camille78 raises to $26.15 (all-in)

main pot $36.40 to call $22.15 pot odds 1.64 :1 38%

JimmyChances has requested more time
JimmyChances is using the time bank
JimmyChances has 3 seconds remaining in the time bank
JimmyChances folds
Taking Rake of $0.71 from pot 1
camille78 doesn't show
camille78 wins $13.54
Seat 1: edgR8 - $60.57
Seat 2: kouill2loup - $48.75
Seat 3: camille78 - $35.69
Seat 4: PKRLouise - $50
Seat 5: JimmyChances - $43.75
Seat 6: Balai49 - $17.51
End Of Hand #1380558715



i put this person on an overpair or set, i hadn't seen them do anything crazy even though their stats
are prettyy crazy. i should have called though.
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Re: Bad fold . help from the maths guys please.

Postby mort_nmgn » Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:13 pm

I am never ever ever folding that hold..

You should download the program Pokerstove. It is free and you can but your hand, the flop and your opponents range in their. Then it calculates for you how many % you have vs his range! THis can be done very fast!
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Re: Bad fold . help from the maths guys please.

Postby hockeyguy » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:32 pm

it is very helpful for other situations that are less clear than this one, it is very helpful to really see how different opponent's possible ranges affects your equity and decision. Atta has several examples on using poker stove in his recent videos

hg
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Re: Bad fold . help from the maths guys please.

Postby JimmyChances » Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:43 am

I've just started to use poker stove. Should I put in 30% for his range. As this is round about the range he will call an open raise.
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Re: Bad fold . help from the maths guys please.

Postby mort_nmgn » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:13 am

No you should select the hands you think he is going all in with on that board.. He can have some flushes, some sets and some overpairs. You select what you think he is going all in with and the put your hand in aswell. Then you can see how much equity you have against his range.
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Re: Bad fold . help from the maths guys please.

Postby olliey2k » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:08 pm

I wouldn't fold in that situation. From the comment it looks like this guy is a total lag, so in this situation the following would need to be considered.

1.68-1 might not be the best odds on the pot, but you need to assume that his range is any pair (making both your J and A a plausable out) or a K flush draw. with the A and J a plausable out, you are looking at 15 outs from a possible 42 cards (or odds around 2.85-1). The standard bluffing range is 10%, but with this guy i could see you probably being close to 15% (just as an observation from the comment made) so i would place odds and closer to 2.5-1. The fact he may have the K high flush draw and your hand, as it plays at the moment, may be the best hand would take the odds to call to well below 2-1 for me, and probably well below the 1.7-1 pot odds he's giving you.

Obviously, it's all dependand on the player, my observations may be totally incorrect, but with 2 overs and the nut flush draw 1.7 pot odds would be more than enough for me, against any opponent.

EDIT - Obviously, sets would reduce your outs odds by 6, so you would be looking at 42/9, 4.5-1, but it still wouldn't effect my descision.
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