Hi guys,

I havent posted in a while, been busy with many things and went on a short vacation to Greece. While I was there I made a plan to study certain aspects of poker to improve my thinking. Im currently delving into postflop play in 3-bet pots, because I think I need to be more aware of whats going on in the hand.
I read a couple of chapters in a few books, one that I liked is 'The poker blue print', by Tri Nugyen. Im also going through my database to review and re-think hands where I 3-betted and got called.

I just played a session and would like some opinions on a hand.

It was the first hand at the table against an unknown opponent with a 35/50 stack. I decided to 3-bet because it's a typical opener with a wide range, a lot of fold equity and I wanted to create an agressive image.

SB: $51.79
Hero (BB): $50.00
UTG: $51.50
MP: $51.75
CO: $50.75
BTN: $35.35

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with A 9
3 folds, BTN raises to $1.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $5.50, BTN calls $3.75

Flop: ($11.25) 2 K 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $5.62, Hero calls $5.62

I took a passive pot control line on the flop. I wonder if it would have been better to lead out. I can rep KK AK AA. I will have some fold equity against missed broadways. If he calls he will have to fold hands like KQ and JJ TT on a barrel on the turn. If he shows signs of agression I can still fold. If this guy where a TAG do you think this is a more profitable line than going for pot control?

Turn: ($22.49) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($22.49) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

He showed down T9o. Thats not a typical hand a TAG calls down a 3-bet with...

3 hands later I 3-bet him again from the CO with KK, I bet the flop 3/4 pot and he shoved. I had to call 15 in a pot of 60. This was an easy call after the previous hand. He showed a flushdraw and I won his stack.

Cheers, Erik

i would typically c bet flop vs a 50/35 guy here for value at 50nl

i dont expect him to ever fold better, but you will be best most times and he will call w/ worse alot
they will find a way to call w/ all kinds of hands 33-88, jt qj flush draw, Ax etc
and Kx is a small part of his 3 bet calling range

if you dont spike an 9 or A the turn is going to be problematic no matter if you bet and get called, check and call, or check check and a scare card comes so i default to the more aggressive option and can reevalute if he gets agressive

also notice you should have never won this hand since he had position
if you bet and he calls, he should auto fire at the turn 3 flush when you check
ditto your check call and turn check
basically he represents Kx or flush draw when he bets flop
when you check call flop and check turn it screams for a turn barrel to pressure you to fold
since if you hit the turn flush you should lead turn to get Kx to pay

when you check the river 4 flush you clearly dont have a flush, since you 3 bet preflop, it is unlikely you have a medium card to make a weakish flush and you would bet a A or K hi type flush, he should have bet river to fold you out

weak play by him in position, something to think about when you have position

notice - good note info- that he shoves flush draw, but bets 2nd pr once in position, you also know he reads hands poorly by not barreling turn or river when you show weakness

gl hg

Thanks HG,

how would you have played this hand if the guy were a 20/15 TAG? If I bet flop, I am repping AA/AK/KK, do you think that he is calling often with hands like 77/88/TT/JJ? If so, I will have to make another bet on the turn. Is that what we want with a hand that has some showdown value to start with? I see that after checking the flop I should have lost that hand against a decent tag. But at 50nl a lot of TAGS dont take adventage of those tells and check down the hand.

Erik

hi Erik
i think a c bet reps ( and really must) a wider range than just AA AK KK because if that were the only hands you cbet here you are way too predictable and every body would fold all hands that were not a set of flush draw

a typical 50nl tag will call at least 1 bet w/ any pair or flush draw or Kx, (9x unlikely in 3 bet pot by most 20/15 tags) . but then mostly check behind unkess they improve. they might bet a Kx on river if no A hits and you check river. some players will also bluff a busted draw on river if you check again .

which again this is a bit weak when they have position but it does benefit you by not putting max pressure on you after you show weakness and control pot size for you when you clearly have a medium to weak hand

if you think about hands like this in general
how many times/hand range can a pfr in blinds call 2 bets on turn and river after they check the flop and/or turn (regatdless whether they cbet the flop or not) what range can they call 2 bets with in the following situations

lets first pick a 3 bet range for player in blind
88+, AT+, KJs+ most of the time
w/ some AXs, QJ JT lower 44 55 pairs, A rag, maybe a few others
mixed in depending on pfr opponent range, recent game flow, opponent postflop play- do they fold to cbet after 3 bet alot

board bricks twice?
maybe Kx,and x isnt going to be A and rarely Q which would both likely barrel 3 streets

An A hits, obviously Ax is big part of a 3 bet range in blinds, but again i expect them to bet for value if an A hits, so the button could bluff the ace if pfr in blind checks an A
lets say you had 3 bet A8s in bb, lets say turn was an A,
can you bet turn and river for value?
do you check and call twice?
do you bet turn and call river?
do you check call check fold
do you check call and PRAY he checks river behind?
AT AJ AQ AK are a big part of pfr/call 3 bet range of players in late position at 50nl, they will rarely 4 bet this situation at 50nl

if 3 flush hits
if blind checks and there is a K on flop, what hands can 3 bettor in blind call fearing button called w/ Kx or flush draw as 2 most likely hands on flop, especially if 3 flush hits on turn and button bets turn and river

basically the point is most 50nl and lower players dont use position enough to pressure their opponents
an easy way to improve is dtop a level or 2 and experiment w/ more aggression in position any time opponent shows weakness. it is fun and quite enlightening

back to your question

to directly answer how i would typically play the hand vs a tag 20/15
i would c bet flop- not so much for value directly but for image, if i only bet a K hi flop when i have a K or better i am way too face up and wont get value when i have hit flop and bet

check turn if i didnt improve- let opponent's typicall non aggression in position be my friend/pot control
check river if i didnt improve- let opponent's typicall non aggression in position be my friend/pot control

consider calling a river bet depending on opponent tendencies
will they bluff a missed draw?
will they bet less than the nuts?- when you check twice here Kx is basically the nuts
will they bet under pirs for value A9 K9 TT JJ etc
will they turn a made hand into a bluff 88 77 etc?

hope this helps
hg

Thanks again HG,

Im putting 1 and 1 together at the moment. It makes sense that a lot of 50 nl tag-players are not using position enough to put pressure on opponent. It must have something to do with fear of playing a big pot with a marginal hand. At least, that is something that I notice myself. In a non-3bet pot I have no problem cbetting a wide range and barreling sometimes in (or even out of) position. But in a three-bet pot the bets get bigger and thus betting a missed flop (oop) gets scarier. It becomes tempting to play fit or fold.

That's why its good that Im training myself to look at his range, and also look at my percieved range, something I tended to forget. When Im aware that his range mostly missed a certain flop, it makes sense to put pressure on him. Over the last two days I ran into a few hands where I cbetted from the blinds after a 3bet, although I had totally missed the flop (and not a lot of equity in the hand), I realised I had a lot of fold equity and the cbet won me the hand.

Thanks and cheers, Erik

good observation on opponents playing fit or fold in 3 bet pots

the thing that goes w/ that is beginning/lower level/non thinking players kind of project their style on their opponents. So if they play fit or fold, they expect others do too. So they give you a lot of credit when you bet postflop in 3 bet pot, AND THEY WILL MANY TIMES IN A ROW. They will wait and keep folding by convincing themselves you are on a hot run and wait for a big hand to play back. 50nl tags rarely make "risky" plays like floating in 3 bet pots post flop. Their style wins vs most 50 nl players so they feel no need to get out of line in big pots w/ marginal hands

thinking about ranges should give you a solid eedge in long run vs these type players at these levels

hg