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legian62 · by **legian62** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:19 am

Hi guys,

Im trying to improve my play on the turn and I have some questions about double barrels:

1. I was watching Hockey Guys latest video and an interesting hand came across (at 17 mins): he played AK from the cut off, facing a caller in the small blind. The flop came 28Q, 2 clubs. HG placed a cbet, his opponent called. The turn was a T of diamonds, after witch the opponent checked and HG decided to check. The opponent had 15/15 stats after 27 hands. (The river was a 6 of clubs, opponent bets and HG decided to give up and fold.)

Just like HG, i find this a difficult spot. Although not so many hands on opponent, it seems he is either a nit or a very tight tag. If he doesnt fold to the flop cbet, he is bound to have a Q or a flush draw, or perhaps a smaller pp (like pocket 9s, Ts?). The turn card doesnt complete the flush draw, and gives HG a backdoor straightdraw.

Because of the outs IMO an argument can also be made to bet the turn. On the turn there is also still some fold equity (against a smaller pp, a missed flush draw). And what about a triple barrel on the river to represent the flush? Is that too much?

Im not saying I have the guts to play it like this, but im interested to know what people think of this line.

2. a typical problem spot that I come across during my play is this:

***** Hand History for Game 329856062 ***** (Merge)
$25.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, April 03, 03:33:05 ET 2011
Table Tijuana (32985606) (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Seat 1: Villain ( $25.00 USD )
Seat 5: Hero ( $25.10 USD )
Hero posts small blind [$0.10 USD].
Villain posts big blind [$0.25 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Ad Jh ]
HERO raises [$0.75 USD]
Villain calls [$0.50 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6s, 3d, 2c ]
Villain checks
HERO bets [$1.12 USD]
Villain calls [$1.12 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3c ]
Villain checks
HERO checks
** Dealing River ** [ 7h ]
Villain bets [$2.99 USD]
HERO folds
Villain wins $6.55 USD from main pot

my opponent in this case is unknown. However I have had this spot before against other players and I dont know what to do on the turn. If a tight tag or nit calls the cbet on the flop, he has overcards or a higher pp (or slowplaying a set). When the turn card is a low card, like the 3, do a have any fold equity on a turn barrel? I tried it a couple of times, against a tag, he would call and i had to shut down on the river.

Right now against people that are tight I just shut down on the turn hoping to hit on the river. Any thoughts on this?

Cheers, Erik

legian62 · by **legian62** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:30 am

In addition:

in HG's hand, Im wondering how would be good to play if another turn card comes up:

another Q --) i think it's best to shut down, because it hits opponents range strongly
another club --) possibly shut down, or represent a flush yourself?
a brick card like 4 of spades --) shut down because he still his a strong chance of have a Q or flushdraw the he doesnt fold?

hockeyguy · by **hockeyguy** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:42 am

hi Erik

you nailed it on these situations, they are tough. This is the number one thing i am really trying to improve in my game right now. When i first joined OP and started changing my game to implement a more aggressive style than my weak tight style i had been playing. i made a clear decision starting at 10nl that i was going to cbet every reasonable flop and even some unreasonable flops that i would never have cbet previously (example pfr 33, flop AKJ, ever check this down to lose to 44-99?) if i thought oppoonent range would not be able to continue a high % of the time.

I also decided i wasnt going to semibluff too many turns do to the high number of stations common at the micro games and they would so rountinely let my overs get free cards to improve anyhow. So i rarely barreled unless i had something kind of a draw w/ 12+ outs which gave me about 50% equity based on hand strength + fold equity + what i like to call stack equity when opponent had second best flush or straight draw (12 outs is the nut flush draw w/ 3 A over cards). Basically these type barrelling situations are virtually guaranteed to be + EV so i was able to accept that the results might vary in the short run, but would be profitable in the long run. (not barreling is a huge mistake many micro/begininning players commonly make) This was quite successful up through 100nl and so far at 200nl at Bodog. This style has also worked well at other sites i have played, although i am confident the noticibly more loose and especially important passive style at bodog (fewer players there playback w/ raises or bet after you check) is a great match and aid to my limited barreling plan/style.

All that being said, after getting a decent number of hands at 100nl and some at 200nl it was clear i needed to start barreling more in certain situations as the tables become populated w/ fewer total tools and more competent tags that do recognize patterns and adjust to your style. So i have been trying to experiment w/ significantly more barreling at 100nl. What i noticed is that i am not very good at picking the right spots yet. Over the last 20k hands my winrate at 100nl is about half what it was for the first 30k hands. There are other possible factors like variance, opponents adjusting to my style, me being a bit rusty in reading situations due to limited play over recent months, etc that could also explan the lower winrate, but based on my observation and review i have spewed off a substantial number of chips experimenting w/ 2 and 3 barrels. I think this is one of the hardest things to directly learn from the videos as it requires the ability to combine hand reading, opponent style, opponent adjustment( if any) to your style, the game flow/metagame and make a decision. Stop limping and raise more in late position, dont cold call pfr or call oop etc are pretty easy to implement.

One thing i am trying as a result of the video series on 50nl hand reading is moving down a level to try to experiment w/ more barreling and some other areas i want to improve. I was running very well when i was recording footage for the videos so i have played the last few days playing 50nl experimenting w/ several concepts that i want to improve in my game- more effective 2 and 3 barreling, trusting my reads and playing back at perceived weakness, floating a bit more to steal pot on later streets. Basically all of these are remaining issues from the weak tight style i brought with me when i joined OP. So far it seems to be going well as i have been killing the games over the last few thousand hands, but it is early so i will see how it goes.

As to the hand in the video Erik mentioned

Just like HG, i find this a difficult spot. Although not so many hands on opponent, it seems he is either a nit or a very tight tag. If he doesnt fold to the flop cbet, he is bound to have a Q or a flush draw, or perhaps a smaller pp (like pocket 9s, Ts?). The turn card doesnt complete the flush draw, and gives HG a backdoor straightdraw.

Because of the outs IMO an argument can also be made to bet the turn. On the turn there is also still some fold equity (against a smaller pp, a missed flush draw). And what about a triple barrel on the river to represent the flush? Is that too much?

Im not saying I have the guts to play it like this, but im interested to know what people think of this line.

Erik pretty much exactly nailed my read and my issue, it takes guts to fire again in situations like this as well as an understanding of how often it has to work to be profitable vs his likely range. Given the guys stats and the situation lets think about villians range
he is tight AND cold called oop likely expecting a heads up pot-

1)possible hands AK-AT, the smaller the kicker the more likely it is sOOted, more likely fold ATo than AQo
2)any pp looking to set mine
3)possible big broadway KQ -JT, more likely sOOted and connected due to his tightness and expected fear of domination, especially oop, so KQs QJs JTs more likely than KJo or QTo.
4)Small sOOted connector 56s-98s possible but less likely in HU pot

now when he calls flop Cbet we are quite confident he has something as a tight/nit gives up his air here near 100% of time. I think my gut reaction is to think flush draw as a result of playing vs do many 50%+ spazzes at micros, but i think that is actually a very small part of this guys range because even if he calls preflop w/ suited cards 75% of these combos are wrong suit i.e. non club combos. So that leaves a lot of made hands that he wouldnt 3 bet oop. Qx (sooted or not) that hit the Q hi flop or a pocket pair that is willing to call figuring i don't have Qx and specifically a better kicker. Is his KQ ever folding fearing AQ KK AA? Also given his tightness i think you can assume he thinks AK is a big part of my pfr range and wont fold a pp until more paint hits the board or maybe to a 3 barrel push when he thinks he is about to stack off w/ 88 99 type hand. It takes guts to do that, a 15/15 guy is high on value hands to win and less so on gutsy calls. So we are left w/ 3 likely hands that are not folding to a double barrel with the exception of a middle pocket pair folding if an A or K hit (notice either card also possibly make tag/nit 2 pair), but you cant get any value by betting as nothing you beat will call. When the turn gives me a gut shot, does it change anything? Qx is still not folding, a flush draw is not folding (but will call and give me value but has huge equity w/ 15 outs if they have no A or K in their hand so bet size matters a lot) will 88 99 etc fold to a double barrel- pretty player dependent i think-only 15 hands on him so hard to say

so if i check i have 4 outs (vs set) 7 outs(vs aq kq) or 10 outs (vs pp) and am ahead of naked flush draw which i think is the smallest part of villian range. I also invite river bet by annoucing i got nothing

if i barrel i am getting called by Qx and flush draw, and maybe pp

which brings me to the river Qx is not folding, missed draw is folding, will pp call 1 more time? depends a lot on river card for sure.

so looking at some rough math on turn guessimate of opponent range
45% Qx
45% pp
10% draw

so about 55% call barrel for sure qX AND DRAW
45% pp might fold, partly dependent on turn card, lets say pp fold half the time
so roughly expect call 75% of time on turn barrel
lets say pot is 20, and i have the gut shot
if you barrel 1/2 pot, you need him to fold 33% to break even
if you barrel pot, you need him to fold 50% to break even

so it is hard to see how the 2 barrel is profitable on its own

also what are chances of opponent check raising turn barrel and what about equity on river
i think i must give up if i get raised- not good
i might improve for free if i check, can i get more value if J hits, doubtful except from set or a 2 pair hand and a reasonable bet they can call-remember he is tight
can i barrel a pp to muck if river bricks?
can i barrel a pp to muck if river makes 3 flush and villain checks?
can i get value if i make a 1 pr hand, what if A or K hits and villain donks? Will villain call if i bet A or K
Will villain check raise if i bet A or K on river?

Bottom line is these are tough and complex situations and take practice and experimentation and some guts to improve. Given some more time to look at this hand i think i like the check here vs this opponent since i don’t think he is folding very often to the turn T AND i don’t think i can get much value even if i do improve on river. Plus if i do barrel the turn i think i am committed to barrel river as well and i don’t like my odds in this hand vs this opponent. I would definitely barrel if i had the flush draw since i would typically get a decent value bet called on river and possibly more if he has flush also.

I would be interested in any other opinions on this hand/type situation
Thanks HG

hockeyguy · by **hockeyguy** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:03 pm

here is a successful barrel from a recent 50nl session

***** Hand History for Game 2133073335 ***** (Bodog)
$50.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, April 02, 12:04:22 ET 2011
Table Lylira (max 6) (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Seat 1: tommyboy4747 ( $28.05 USD )
Seat 2: Fantasm ( $47.45 USD )
Seat 3: Crazycrazy007 ( $110.07 USD )
Seat 4: hockeyguy99 ( $74.70 USD )
Seat 5: CheckDark ( $71.10 USD )
Seat 6: jnoury ( $67.85 USD )
tommyboy4747 posts small blind [$0.25 USD].
Fantasm posts big blind [$0.50 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to hockeyguy99 [ Ac 8c ]
Crazycrazy007 folds
hockeyguy99 raises [$1.75 USD]
CheckDark folds
jnoury calls [$1.75 USD]

opponent is 42/7/1.7 over 96 hands
and not very aggressive postflop 1.3/1.7/1.4
my general read was he was a bit weakish playing style overall
I decided on flop that i was barreling to the end
this flop is very hard to hit, but i do want to fold out things like bigger A9+ or 55-99 and/or get value from Kx Qx type chasing hands, you cant always know exactly which you are doing

tommyboy4747 folds
Fantasm folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4h, Td, 4c ]
hockeyguy99 bets [$3.50 USD]
jnoury calls [$3.50 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7d ]

gives a bd diamond and str8 draw that i am still ahead of

hockeyguy99 bets [$8.00 USD]
jnoury calls [$8.00 USD]

he did tank a bit, so confirmed i might get him to fold to a 3 barrel
also not so passive that i thought he would call w/ 4x and not raise

** Dealing River ** [ Kc ]

perfect river card after his slowish turn call, no chance he has KT

hockeyguy99 bets [$20.00 USD]
jnoury folds
hockeyguy99 wins $20.00 USD
hockeyguy99 shows [Ac, 8c ]
hockeyguy99 wins $25.90 USD from main pot

i wish they all worked out so well
it is by its nature hard to know if i was value betting or bluffing since successful barreling leads to opponent mucking, but looking at the opponent/his range/the flop/ his 2 calls- even the biggest donks dont typically call twice w/ total air- i think there is a very good chance he folded a better hand which is 1 of the 2 reasons to barrel ie get value or fold better

hg

cudaflu · by **cudaflu** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:29 pm

I had these two situations come up in my last session and was wondering what others opinion on them were.

Situation 1:

***** Hand History for Game 32991161235 ***** (Merge)
$10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, April 03, 01:43:24 ET 2011
Table Lima (32991161) (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Seat 1: reraisebob9 ( $11.47 USD )
Seat 2: LuckWhale ( $10.00 USD )
Seat 3: DespisedIcon74 ( $20.15 USD )
Seat 4: anymorphis24 ( $10.00 USD )
Seat 5: AAQKAA ( $10.00 USD )
Seat 6: Cudaflu ( $12.60 USD )
Cudaflu posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
reraisebob9 posts big blind [$0.10 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Cudaflu [ 9s As ]
DespisedIcon74 folds
AAQKAA folds
Cudaflu raises [$0.35 USD]
reraisebob9 calls [$0.30 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ks, Th, 7s ]
Cudaflu bets [$0.53 USD]
reraisebob9 calls [$0.53 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2h ]
Cudaflu bets [$1.24 USD]
reraisebob9 calls [$1.24 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ Td ]
Cudaflu bets [$2.85 USD]
reraisebob9 calls [$2.85 USD]
Cudaflu shows [9s, As ]
reraisebob9 shows [Kc, 9c ]
reraisebob9 wins $9.54 USD from main pot

Villain is a 18/14 abc player. Standard Cbet on the flop with flush draw and an over card, and I am usually betting the turn as well as he could have a lot of drawing hands that are folding there, or a random ten that would fold. When he calls the turn, I never think he has a ten, so when I see the ten on the river, I think its a good bluff card. The bet is about 2/3 pot and he didn't take very long to call.

Obviously it didn't work here, but would it be a +EV triple barrel in the long run? I was surprised he called so quickly since he is so ABC.

Situation 2:

***** Hand History for Game 32989962396 ***** (Merge)
$10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, April 03, 01:57:17 ET 2011
Table Lima (32989962) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Seat 1: DColVGrinderK ( $12.15 USD )
Seat 2: LuckWhale ( $19.30 USD )
Seat 3: LILREEZY ( $10.70 USD )
Seat 4: Cudaflu ( $10.16 USD )
Seat 5: reraisebob9 ( $10.59 USD )
Seat 6: alhrist15 ( $10.00 USD )
Cudaflu posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
reraisebob9 posts big blind [$0.10 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Cudaflu [ 7s Ah ]
alhrist15 folds
DColVGrinderK folds
LuckWhale folds
LILREEZY raises [$0.35 USD]
Cudaflu raises [$1.20 USD]
reraisebob9 folds
LILREEZY calls [$0.90 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kd, 4c, 6c ]
Cudaflu bets [$1.56 USD]
LILREEZY calls [$1.56 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5h ]
Cudaflu bets [$3.00 USD]
LILREEZY calls [$3.00 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ Js ]
Cudaflu checks
LILREEZY checks
Cudaflu shows [7s, Ah ]
LILREEZY shows [Td, Tc ]
LILREEZY wins $11.14 USD from main pot

24/21, at the time of the hand 3bet fold % of 50, raising over 50% of his buttons. Standard Cbet on the flop. I decide to barrel the turn for about 3/5 pot with the open ender and an overcard. With only a 1/3 pot bet left behind I didn't think he was folding anything that he called the turn with. Maybe he would have folded the tens, but I would have thought he would fold a hand like QQ, JJ, TT, after the second barrel.

I was pretty surprised when he showed up with tens, thought he would have a somewhat weak king (KT, KQ).

What are your thoughts?

hockeyguy · by **hockeyguy** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:56 pm

cudaflu wrote:I had these two situations come up in my last session and was wondering what others opinion on them were.

Situation 1:

***** Hand History for Game 32991161235 ***** (Merge)
$10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, April 03, 01:43:24 ET 2011
Table Lima (32991161) (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Seat 1: reraisebob9 ( $11.47 USD )
Seat 2: LuckWhale ( $10.00 USD )
Seat 3: DespisedIcon74 ( $20.15 USD )
Seat 4: anymorphis24 ( $10.00 USD )
Seat 5: AAQKAA ( $10.00 USD )
Seat 6: Cudaflu ( $12.60 USD )
Cudaflu posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
reraisebob9 posts big blind [$0.10 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Cudaflu [ 9s As ]
DespisedIcon74 folds
AAQKAA folds
Cudaflu raises [$0.35 USD]
reraisebob9 calls [$0.30 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ks, Th, 7s ]
Cudaflu bets [$0.53 USD]
reraisebob9 calls [$0.53 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2h ]
Cudaflu bets [$1.24 USD]
reraisebob9 calls [$1.24 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ Td ]
Cudaflu bets [$2.85 USD]
reraisebob9 calls [$2.85 USD]
Cudaflu shows [9s, As ]
reraisebob9 shows [Kc, 9c ]
reraisebob9 wins $9.54 USD from main pot

Villain is a 18/14 abc player. Standard Cbet on the flop with flush draw and an over card, and I am usually betting the turn as well as he could have a lot of drawing hands that are folding there, or a random ten that would fold. When he calls the turn, I never think he has a ten, so when I see the ten on the river, I think its a good bluff card. The bet is about 2/3 pot and he didn't take very long to call.

Obviously it didn't work here, but would it be a +EV triple barrel in the long run? I was surprised he called so quickly since he is so ABC.

i think the flop and turn cbet are fine, he may fold a T on turn fearing having to call another bigger river bet by Kx. he can peel flop w/ decent implied odds w/ Tx if he hits, but the turn bet ruins implied odds so i think that is fine as you also get value from worse flush draw or qj str8 draw. However when he calls turn i am putting him on Kx or draw, any player that calls w/ Kx will not fold top pr and you are ahead of missed straight or flush draw that will fold to river bet. aditionally no one will give you credit for a Tx after you bet flop and turn on a K hi board, would you? Basically i dont think on this board and this opponent the river bet ever folds better or gets callled by worse, so not +ev in this situation. Take note that opponent calls down w/ top pair weak kicker 3 streets for future 3 street ride on value train. Also, notice he did play ABC, he called w/ top pr shaky kicker, he made up his mind preflop/flop top wasnt getting folded or else he would have folded K9 preflop. He doesnt think you will 3 barrel QQor less, but just cant fold top pr.

hg

Situation 2:

***** Hand History for Game 32989962396 ***** (Merge)
$10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, April 03, 01:57:17 ET 2011
Table Lima (32989962) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Seat 1: DColVGrinderK ( $12.15 USD )
Seat 2: LuckWhale ( $19.30 USD )
Seat 3: LILREEZY ( $10.70 USD )
Seat 4: Cudaflu ( $10.16 USD )
Seat 5: reraisebob9 ( $10.59 USD )
Seat 6: alhrist15 ( $10.00 USD )
Cudaflu posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
reraisebob9 posts big blind [$0.10 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Cudaflu [ 7s Ah ]
alhrist15 folds
DColVGrinderK folds
LuckWhale folds
LILREEZY raises [$0.35 USD]
Cudaflu raises [$1.20 USD]
reraisebob9 folds
LILREEZY calls [$0.90 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kd, 4c, 6c ]
Cudaflu bets [$1.56 USD]
LILREEZY calls [$1.56 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5h ]
Cudaflu bets [$3.00 USD]
LILREEZY calls [$3.00 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ Js ]
Cudaflu checks
LILREEZY checks
Cudaflu shows [7s, Ah ]
LILREEZY shows [Td, Tc ]
LILREEZY wins $11.14 USD from main pot

24/21, at the time of the hand 3bet fold % of 50, raising over 50% of his buttons. Standard Cbet on the flop. I decide to barrel the turn for about 3/5 pot with the open ender and an overcard. With only a 1/3 pot bet left behind I didn't think he was folding anything that he called the turn with. Maybe he would have folded the tens, but I would have thought he would fold a hand like QQ, JJ, TT, after the second barrel.

I was pretty surprised when he showed up with tens, thought he would have a somewhat weak king (KT, KQ).

i dont really like the 3 bet w/ A7o as it flops so poorly, i prefer a 70%+ fold to 3 bet to reraise w/ A7o or other hand that is so hard to hit flop since that pretty much guarantees a break to + EV result. Someone that folds to 3 bet 50% of the time calls 50% of 3 bets which is actually quite high which makes me want to really just reraise w/ more solid value hands eg 88 or AT+ or KJs+ which all have his 50% button pfr crushed, Since you are oop, a bigger hand value edge is a good idea. In general i would wait for a better hand at 10nl to 3bet this type of opponent. That being said, The flop cbet is standard repping the K. (FYI-there is a fold to cbet in 3 bet pot availible) On the turn you pick up a nice draw to likely best and A is likely still an out as AK would likely raise flop cbets, only AcXc is likely still in hand after flop cbet. But what are the odds the opponent will fold to turn Cbet after they call a 3 bet AND cbet on K hi flop? Add in his high call 3 bet% and you generally can expect him to call more than an average player. He will never fold Kx per above HH, and I would submit the chances he will fold to 2 barrel are not that good even if he doesnt hold Kx. But to improve chance he will muck i think you need to make a bit bigger bet like 3/4 pot or even pot to make opponent be concerned that his stack is going in on the river no matter what. More thinking players tend to view, or at least consider, a bigger bet wants a fold and smaller bet wants a call to get value. Micro/beginners tend to view bet size the opposite so a smaller bet increases chances of a call vs majority of 10nl players in my experience. Which bet are you more likely to call a 1/3 stack bet on river, or a 1/3 stack bet on turn knowing you are likely facing a river push for the rest of your stack? The goal of a second or 3rd barrel w/ a non made hand is to MAXIMIZE THE PRESSURE on the opponent to fold weak made hands, to best do this your bet size should threaten their entire stack.
Overall i prefer a fold preflop, but once you are in the hand i like the flop cbet, but prefer a check on turn, notice he will be a non beliver on the rivers when you hit your straight or A and its off to value town.

hg

legian62 · by **legian62** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:05 am

Hi Hockeyguy,

First of all, apologies for the late reply, once again a busy week prevented me from delving into the poker game. Some interesting posts at the forum - I have some catching up to do!

Thanks for your analysis on your hand. I follow your reasoning, low fold equity combined with low expected value make this hand not a good spot for a 2nd barrel.

When you were doing the reasoning you mentioned that you think that:

10% is a draw, 45% is a Qx, and 45% a pocket pair. I think this is very relevant info. When I hear the coaches do handreading in the vids on similar hands, they mention 'he may have a flushdraw'. During my own play I always consider the flush draw to be a bigger part of his range. Good to take notice of your estimate numbers.

cheers, Erik

legian62 · by **legian62** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:38 am

hockeyguy wrote:here is a successful barrel from a recent 50nl session

***** Hand History for Game 2133073335 ***** (Bodog)
$50.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, April 02, 12:04:22 ET 2011
Table Lylira (max 6) (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Seat 1: tommyboy4747 ( $28.05 USD )
Seat 2: Fantasm ( $47.45 USD )
Seat 3: Crazycrazy007 ( $110.07 USD )
Seat 4: hockeyguy99 ( $74.70 USD )
Seat 5: CheckDark ( $71.10 USD )
Seat 6: jnoury ( $67.85 USD )
tommyboy4747 posts small blind [$0.25 USD].
Fantasm posts big blind [$0.50 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to hockeyguy99 [ Ac 8c ]
Crazycrazy007 folds
hockeyguy99 raises [$1.75 USD]
CheckDark folds
jnoury calls [$1.75 USD]

opponent is 42/7/1.7 over 96 hands
and not very aggressive postflop 1.3/1.7/1.4
my general read was he was a bit weakish playing style overall
I decided on flop that i was barreling to the end
this flop is very hard to hit, but i do want to fold out things like bigger A9+ or 55-99 and/or get value from Kx Qx type chasing hands, you cant always know exactly which you are doing

tommyboy4747 folds
Fantasm folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4h, Td, 4c ]
hockeyguy99 bets [$3.50 USD]
jnoury calls [$3.50 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7d ]

gives a bd diamond and str8 draw that i am still ahead of

hockeyguy99 bets [$8.00 USD]
jnoury calls [$8.00 USD]

he did tank a bit, so confirmed i might get him to fold to a 3 barrel
also not so passive that i thought he would call w/ 4x and not raise

** Dealing River ** [ Kc ]

perfect river card after his slowish turn call, no chance he has KT

hockeyguy99 bets [$20.00 USD]
jnoury folds
hockeyguy99 wins $20.00 USD
hockeyguy99 shows [Ac, 8c ]
hockeyguy99 wins $25.90 USD from main pot

i wish they all worked out so well
it is by its nature hard to know if i was value betting or bluffing since successful barreling leads to opponent mucking, but looking at the opponent/his range/the flop/ his 2 calls- even the biggest donks dont typically call twice w/ total air- i think there is a very good chance he folded a better hand which is 1 of the 2 reasons to barrel ie get value or fold better

hg

Nice play!

I really need to let this hand sink in. These are the thoughts that would bother me if I were in this hand:

1. Given this guys stats, he fits into the category loose/passive. But what does that say about postflop style? Does he play fit or fold or is he a calling station?
---) I'd say he's a station, because of his agression stats, if he were fit or fold he should have higher agression stats. But tough to say because not enough hands. When I think about barreling the turn I want to know who Im dealing with. With A8 i may be ahead of the station but not ahead of the fit or fold. Altogether I find it more likely that he is a station.

2. what better hands will fold on the turn barrel?
---) Probably none. If he is fit or fold he has decided that he likes his hand already. The turn card doesnt change the situation. And if he is a station - more likely imo - He may fold to turn barrel, but might as well call. And you'd be in the dark whether you're ahead or not.

3. So if not so much fold equity on the turn I need to know what my chances are at the river. I may have 3 outs with the A. If the A doesnt hit some cards will be good to bluff, the K, Q and J. This will push opponent off a T. But what if a low card hits? He will only call the river bet if he has me beat.

Following this strain of thoughts, II think I would give up on the turn 7. But like I said, I need to let this hand sink in, because I see it can also work out well.

Erik

hockeyguy · by **hockeyguy** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:13 pm

hi erik

this was probably not the best example of a 3 barrel other than it worked out well. multi barrels is the part of postflop play that gives me the most trouble since i rarely tried as i moved from 10nl up to 100nl. i always seemed to pick hands where the guy had a hand he would never fold. i am getting better at it as i have been trying it more often and gradually getting better at picking good spots, although 3 barreling is still quite rare for me.

As to this hand, it has been a while but my memory was that he was a bit stubborn w/ pocket pairs and over cards. After turn call i felt he had a better Ax or middle pocket pair like 88 99 or maybe a weak Tx all of which had me beat. The reason i remember the hand is that i was a bit tilty and decided i was going to make the bastard fold no matter what since he had been stuubborn in a couple previous hands and taken the pots. Obviously not the best mindset for good decisions even though ths one worked out.

i have been trying to mark some hands that deal w/ myultibarrels and do a video on them, it just takes a while to collect them

glad you took the time to think about the hand as that is the most important thing when you are trying to improve. just logging more hands wont do it unless you also think about what happened

gl hg

cudaflu · by **cudaflu** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:02 pm

Thanks for the reply hokeyguy, I've been trying to work out tall the kinks in my game lately and a second opinion on hands always helps!

double barrel situations

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