I have been on the site for a few months and really enjoy the content.
I am having some issues with Bodog and wonder if anyone else is having some of the same problems. 1. I am constantly getting disconnected! I have good DSL service and do not have this problem with other sites. 2. I am having a problem with all of the limpers calling everytime I raise, especially middle pairs or good speculative hands. I am cbetting most of the time but almost always get called and unless I hit good am pretty much done for. I am not limping, and playing in position with marginal hands. I am running 16/14 with a 3AF and getting nowhere. I am still a winner but getting so I hate Bodog. Would appreciate some feedback especially from hockeyguy.

Thanks
Cliff48

My apologies for the whiney, crybaby post of yesterday. Had a rough morning at the tables and needed to vent a little. Looked at the post this morning and had to laugh at myself. I don't blame anyone for not answering. I am truly embarassed.

cliff48

Cliff,

No worries on posting your frustrations! It's totally normal to get frustrated by bad players when you can't manage to hit some hands - I can feel your pain!

Try to take a step back and take comfort in the fact that it's GOOD for you when they make bad plays like calling down with bottom pair or random gutshots. This is how you'll make money from them in the long run - when you can take them to valuetown with top-pair or better-type hands.

If you have a bunch of monkeys calling all sorts of stuff, tighten up a lot out of position and wait for premium hands that make a lot of top pairs with good kickers. Then value bet them to death. I can't stress enough to never slowplay at micro-stakes - you are giving up so much money by doing so. You need to build the pot early so that you can get all the money in by the river.

Just be patient, play premium hands, open up if you have position on them and in the long run you'll start crushing them!

Good luck!
Tim/atta22

HELLO.I have had the same problems with BODOG, don't know whats up with that site.I have heard they have had trouble since they developed this site,but people have said its getting better.

I also play micro games and have lots of problems with players hitting there draws and bottom pairs.I have lost my stack do to there stupidity.But what can you do.Hockeyguy said pretty much the same thing as atta22.I did try (just to see how upper stake games were) and found out there more aggressive BUT sold players.not alot of donkey plays.

So ,just keep building your bank and it will get better as you move up.

SUPPERBUG

Thanks for the support folks.

Cliff48

cliff48 wrote:My apologies for the whiney, crybaby post of yesterday. Had a rough morning at the tables and needed to vent a little. Looked at the post this morning and had to laugh at myself. I don't blame anyone for not answering. I am truly embarassed.

cliff48

not a player alive thayt hasnt felt that way, MANY TIMES
so welcome to the club, i find a good vent helps
sounds like this one helped you since you thought it was funny when you read it later
hg

cliff48 wrote:I have been on the site for a few months and really enjoy the content.
I am having some issues with Bodog and wonder if anyone else is having some of the same problems. 1. I am constantly getting disconnected! I have good DSL service and do not have this problem with other sites. 2. I am having a problem with all of the limpers calling everytime I raise, especially middle pairs or good speculative hands. I am cbetting most of the time but almost always get called and unless I hit good am pretty much done for. I am not limping, and playing in position with marginal hands. I am running 16/14 with a 3AF and getting nowhere. I am still a winner but getting so I hate Bodog. Would appreciate some feedback especially from hockeyguy.

Thanks
Cliff48

As for the disconnect issues, i used to have it at bodog as did many other players at bodog. I never have the problem any more, but i know others still do, but nowhere near as bad as it was when they first released newer software about a year ago. it might be worth a call to their customer service, they have always been helpful on any issue i have called them about.

I understand the frustration of a bad run, but i love bodog for the very reason you described. They call and chase w rubbish again and again, the most helpful stat i found to deal with these type players is their aggression by street. It is important not to pay the chasers when they hit some goofy chasing hand. A few things to keep in mind to avoid getting stacked when unnecessary

play in position, it gives you the chance to not pay off on the river(typically the biggest bet) because many chasers will not bet their hand. Patterns are key here, if a really passive leads the river, it is a bluff or the nuts. Many will just check and call with the nuts(how stupid), some like the checkraise.

watch the aggr by street most aggr players have a aggr by street that is somewhere between 3 on flop, 3 on turn, 3 on river
and 4 on flop, 3 on turn, 1.7 on river. But Lines like 12, 1,0.5 or 1,1,6+ are not uncommon. Notice the first guy is full of it on flop and should be checkraised liberally with made hands, the second guy is different, i would cbet almost every time i was pfr, then bet turn with any made hand, check almost any no pair hand. the river was pretty straight forward, i bet every made hand middle pair with decent kicker or better. I almost never called a big bet by these types unless i had a set or better, top 2 pr not usually ahead of their bet big/push range. 1 pr is virtually never good vs these types, dont make the hero call.

Dont be afraid to fold when you get played back at by ANY player, until you get a good read on them. You can easily call off a stack by cbetting and calling a raise or check raise if you get stubborn a few times. This hurts the winrate

The other important thing is bet size, if they wont fold, you must charge them for the possibility of chasing you down
i never cbet less than 3/4 pot at bodog at any level up to 200nl, i frequently cbet the pot. the somewhat bigger bets add up in the long run, and help compensate for their suckouts. It also leads to clarity to postflop play, i rarely get played back at unless they have a hand.
The bottom line is that more hands is your friend to let the math work out if you have a bad streak or two.

bet size vs multiple limpers
if 3 limpers and i have 88 in bb, i will raise 4 bb + 1bb per limper minimum, if i have noticed they wont fold to this size, then i raise more to get them to fold or worst case heads up to the flop. It appears at most levels certain bet sizes are more prone to cause folds

for instance 10nl, 1.00 bets preflop, they will call 70,80,90 cents squeeze raise, but not a dollar- go figure
fyi the most common limp/call big squeeze raise is a med or small pr, i cbet almost any paint flop, and most A hi flops
i might check A hi vs known Ace rag caller, but of course bet it if i had an Ace
fyi the second most common limp/call big squeeze raise is AceX, hence the caveat above
i have seen same thing at 100nl, they will call a squeeze of 7,8,9 bucks, but not ten bucks

now a couple questions
3AF, but what is your AF by streeet?
at 10 nl my af was 4.5, 3.25, 1.5, my cbet was 76% w 52% they fold, my turn bet was 48% w 30% success-meaning they fold
in reality i rarely fired again w/o a made hand on the turn, so i view their call as a success as i was taking then to valuetown most times
this is where i made the $$$, since the turn bets were much bigger than preflop or flop bets
What speculative hands are you raising with?, and when/why?
if med/small prs are trouble, why not limp for cheap set mining, about the only time limp is ok in 6 man
i mix about 3/4 raise w 1/4 limp w 77-, 88+ all raise if pot wasn't rased yet
if you raise 3 limpers w 88 , will you Cbet kj4 flop in a heads up pot?
i tend to limp med/small prs vs identified non folders to pfr, they dont fold post flop either, i can punish when i hit a set
what is your call % when you get reraised, check raised, or a donk bet into you

Cbet most of the time? what % is that

i hope this helps and let me know about the stats

gl hg

Excellent information hockeyguy!
1. Playing in position is something I am very aware of , here are my general standards for opening: UTG: 22+ (which I am changing depending on limpers or not) AQo, AJs UTG-1: 22+ditto, AJo+, ATs+, KQ, KJs MP: 22+, ATo+ A8s+, KJo, 9Ts. CO: 22+, A8o+, A6s+, KTo+, K8s+, QJo, 78s. BTN: 22+, A6o, Axs+, K8o+, K6s+, Q8s+, 89o+, 54s+. Folded to me in SB raise all above. Limpers behind raise 77+, AJs+, AQo+

2. Aggression by street: Here I am at a loss. I have been using Holdem Indicator as I have most of my money on Merge networks (PokerNordica and Carbon) and these sites do not support Holdem Manager and Indicator does not display aggro by street. I do have Holdem Manager and will download the free 1000 hand version of Bodog Grabber tonight and start using HEM. I would love to trade some cash with someone who has money on bodog and wants to play on PokerNordica.

3. Betsizing: I am pretty much right on with your recommendations. I do have a hard time giving up second best hands even when I am pretty sure I am beat by their action. AA gets beat by two pair a lot, straight draws, flushes etc. I am getting better about laying down QQ on a flop that has AK in it.

4. The spec hands I raise with are listed above with no information on a player. I play with a lot of the same people at .05/.10 on Merge and Bodog and rely on their stats to make those decisions. A little tougher on Bodog as there are so many people in the High VP Low VPaF. I had a problem when I first got the stats programs spending too much time watching the stats rather than the game, but getting better using the program. Why I raise with spec hands is to steal blinds when in late position or have a good chance to win the hand if called. I definitely will start limping more with small and med pairs when there are limpers. Early or late you are most likely going to get a caller or two, or three if you raise first. I have worked hard to get limping out of my game and practically NEVER do it unless I am calling a raise with a small or med pair. In answer to your question of cbetting 88 with a kj4 flop and no info on a headsup opponent I probably would. I know it is in his wheel house but so many people call with Ax crap he may fold or I may catch a set and get it all in.

5. My total stat on Holdem Indicator over 7107 hands are vpip -16/14, 3bet -3/56, steal- 30/87, af-2.6, cbet-69/64, wsd-21, w-50, net-212.39

The net is skewed a little by an eighty dollar win at .25NL when I was feeling frisky one night. I have about a $600. BR spread over 3 or 4 sites but pretty much play them as individual BRs.

Thanks for all the help. I really have learned a lot.

Cliff48

cliff48 wrote:Excellent information hockeyguy!
1. Playing in position is something I am very aware of , here are my general standards for opening: UTG: 22+ (which I am changing depending on limpers or not) AQo, AJs UTG-1: 22+ditto, AJo+, ATs+, KQ, KJs MP: 22+, ATo+ A8s+, KJo, 9Ts. CO: 22+, A8o+, A6s+, KTo+, K8s+, QJo, 78s. BTN: 22+, A6o, Axs+, K8o+, K6s+, Q8s+, 89o+, 54s+. Folded to me in SB raise all above. Limpers behind raise 77+, AJs+, AQo+

nothing too out of line here,
better to tighten up a bit in sb vs bb, you are out of position postflop-maybe like cutoff range
do you play same range if a limper(s) in front of you?
isolation raise on limper(s) adds alot to winrate
KQ plays pretty much like ak if you raise and only callers are players that already limped, a pair on flop has top kicker vs all but tightest pfr- again see stats- dont call a 3 bet w kq- AA, AK AQ will kill you when you hit, JJ or less will not stack off much unless they hit a set
best to play bigger cards vs loose limper, most of std range ok vs tighter limper as they will fold more often preflop
although probably best to start out with big cards vs all type players

2. Aggression by street: Here I am at a loss. I have been using Holdem Indicator as I have most of my money on Merge networks (PokerNordica and Carbon) and these sites do not support Holdem Manager and Indicator does not display aggro by street. I do have Holdem Manager and will download the free 1000 hand version of Bodog Grabber tonight and start using HEM. I would love to trade some cash with someone who has money on bodog and wants to play on PokerNordica.

when you get hm working with bodog, i think you will be amazed at the usefulness of aggr by street, you will need a few long sessions vs mostly same opponents to get more accurate info/sample size- too many short sessions will give a bunch of small sample size on too many different players for aggr by street to maximize stat usefulness

3. Betsizing: I am pretty much right on with your recommendations. I do have a hard time giving up second best hands even when I am pretty sure I am beat by their action. AA gets beat by two pair a lot, straight draws, flushes etc. I am getting better about laying down QQ on a flop that has AK in it.

maybe this thought will help, even most donkasauruses will not call w/ worse than QQ on AKx flop, and few will bluff into AKx flop
so QQ gets no value but does give value to better hands- so deep breath, a little cussing, easy fold
FYI- any min/tiny bet on flop, turn or river is typically an underpair , a draw, or weak Ace- know your player to decide

4. The spec hands I raise with are listed above with no information on a player. I play with a lot of the same people at .05/.10 on Merge and Bodog and rely on their stats to make those decisions. A little tougher on Bodog as there are so many people in the High VP Low VPaF. I had a problem when I first got the stats programs spending too much time watching the stats rather than the game, but getting better using the program. Why I raise with spec hands is to steal blinds when in late position or have a good chance to win the hand if called. I definitely will start limping more with small and med pairs when there are limpers.

no need to get carried away with limp, just enough to mix it up and/or not get 3 bet by aggr player behind you

Early or late you are most likely going to get a caller or two, or three if you raise first.

Try abit tighter range and a bit bigger raises- heads up is MUCH EASIER to play post flop
you may have to experiment to find best raise size for different tables and their dynamics

I have worked hard to get limping out of my game and practically NEVER do it unless I am calling a raise with a small or med pair. In answer to your question of cbetting 88 with a kj4 flop and no info on a headsup opponent I probably would. I know it is in his wheel house but so many people call with Ax crap he may fold or I may catch a set and get it all in.

More important is using player vpip/cold call range to see if it is in their range AND is this in your percieved range for believable Cbet
also to max value lags will chase w a4 3 streets, Tags will fold 99 or TT- again HM stats and notes tell what you up against


5. My total stat on Holdem Indicator over 7107 hands are vpip -16/14, 3bet -3/56, steal- 30/87, af-2.6, cbet-69/64, wsd-21, w-50, net-212.39

This is a small sample of hands , your winrate could be higher or lower by quite a bit, time will tell
vpip/pfr is a bit tight, but that is a good way to start, once you are comfortable and consistent winner you can loosen up a bit
to maybe 20/17 plus or minus a point or 2 depending on your comforrt level

The net is skewed a little by an eighty dollar win at .25NL when I was feeling frisky one night. I have about a $600. BR spread over 3 or 4 sites but pretty much play them as individual BRs.

Thanks for all the help. I really have learned a lot.

Cliff48

fyi-i started winning much faster once i watched atta22 first 10 videos, it took around 15k hands before i maxed out my win rate at that level around 30big blinds/100 hands

gl hg

Thanks HG,

Lots of information to digest. I have printed out your response and will go over it a number of times. Certain nuggets stick with me, especially like your take on KQ.

I will revisit the first 10 vids by atta22 and take appropriate notes. I am terrible about taking notes on players when in the game and will work on that also.

Cliff48