marginal spots help

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marginal spots help

Postby buggy » Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:08 am

Hi guys, REALLY appreciate your help on these two situations.
(sorry about the hand history pasting)

First hand:

I had just started this table and so thought I'd just limp it around and see what the table was like. I quickly got myself in trouble. I shoved the turn cause he had such a small stack. I don't know why I did that...:

Full Tilt Poker Game #27082388346: Table Thorn - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 05:40:56 ET - 2011/01/08
Seat 1: CatrielRemedi ($3.15)
Seat 2: stuppi81 ($10.64)
Seat 3: DmitriyIZ ($10.04)
Seat 4: MaltrAviesO ($4)
Seat 5: Zarl8 ($5.92)
Seat 6: cahalfish ($9.77)
Seat 7: Hero ($10)
Seat 8: Banasin ($6.44)
Seat 9: ngundlach3 ($6.11)
ngundlach3 posts the small blind of $0.05
CatrielRemedi posts the big blind of $0.10
Hero posts $0.10
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [8d 8s]
stuppi81 calls $0.10
DmitriyIZ folds
MaltrAviesO folds
Zarl8 folds
cahalfish folds
Hero checks
Banasin folds
ngundlach3 calls $0.05
CatrielRemedi checks
*** FLOP *** [6h 7h 8c]
ngundlach3 checks
CatrielRemedi checks
stuppi81 checks
Hero bets $0.30
ngundlach3 calls $0.30
CatrielRemedi has 15 seconds left to act
CatrielRemedi calls $0.30
stuppi81 folds
stuppi81 is sitting out
*** TURN *** [6h 7h 8c] [9s]
ngundlach3 checks
stuppi81 stands up
CatrielRemedi has 15 seconds left to act
chancasweb adds $10.53
CatrielRemedi bets $1.30
Hero raises to $5.20
ngundlach3 folds
CatrielRemedi has 15 seconds left to act
CatrielRemedi calls $1.45, and is all in
Hero shows [8d 8s]
CatrielRemedi shows [5c Th]
Uncalled bet of $2.45 returned to Hero
*** RIVER *** [6h 7h 8c 9s] [5d]
Hero shows a straight, Nine high
CatrielRemedi shows a straight, Ten high
CatrielRemedi wins the pot ($6.35) with a straight, Ten high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $6.80 | Rake $0.45
Board: [6h 7h 8c 9s 5d]
Seat 1: CatrielRemedi (big blind) showed [5c Th] and won ($6.35) with a straight, Ten high
Seat 2: stuppi81 folded on the Flop
Seat 3: DmitriyIZ didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: MaltrAviesO didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Zarl8 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: cahalfish didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: Hero showed [8d 8s] and lost with a straight, Nine high
Seat 8: Banasin (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: ngundlach3 (small blind) folded on the Turn

and finally:

Similar situation but with a draw (and fairly confident he flopped the straight as it was just that kind of session):


Full Tilt Poker Game #27082508695: Table Allowed - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 05:49:33 ET - 2011/01/08
Seat 1: uveren ($8.80)
Seat 2: MiskaBY ($10.30)
Seat 3: Hero ($18.96)
Seat 4: Prots ($7.56)
Seat 5: MKokovic ($6.54)
Seat 6: Banasin ($3.84)
Seat 7: baranek7 ($10.54)
Seat 8: DmitriyIZ ($15.02)
Seat 9: Bersek707 ($6.87)
Prots posts the small blind of $0.05
MKokovic posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Qd Ad]
Banasin folds
baranek7 folds
DmitriyIZ folds
Bersek707 folds
uveren folds
MiskaBY folds
Hero raises to $0.35
Prots folds
MKokovic calls $0.25
*** FLOP *** [Kd Td 9c]
MKokovic checks
Hero bets $0.55
MKokovic has 15 seconds left to act
MKokovic has requested TIME
MKokovic calls $0.55
*** TURN *** [Kd Td 9c] [5s]
MKokovic checks
Hero bets $1.45
MKokovic has 15 seconds left to act
MKokovic calls $1.45
*** RIVER *** [Kd Td 9c 5s] [3h]
MKokovic bets $0.20
Hero calls $0.20
*** SHOW DOWN ***
MKokovic shows [Qc Js] a straight, King high
Hero mucks
MKokovic wins the pot ($4.81) with a straight, King high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $5.15 | Rake $0.34
Board: [Kd Td 9c 5s 3h]
Seat 1: uveren didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: MiskaBY didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Hero (button) mucked [Qd Ad] - Ace King high
Seat 4: Prots (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: MKokovic (big blind) showed [Qc Js] and won ($4.81) with a straight, King high
Seat 6: Banasin didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: baranek7 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: DmitriyIZ didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: Bersek707 didn't bet (folded)

my questions: Should I have slowed down on the turn if I thought I was beat or should I have just kept the aggression up in case I hit the flush or straight / full house and got paid off?
buggy
 
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Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:46 am

Re: marginal spots help

Postby hockeyguy » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:30 pm

first hand

i dont limp as newbie, they dont know me either so will give you credit on a pfr

on flop i over bet pot to like 0.50, draws wont fold so charge em, you almost certainly best on flop
you can slow down on turn bad card

no need to raise turn vs shorty, you expose yoursels to other player calling or reraise if he hit turn str8 as well, he also might call w/ 2 pr building pot for river board pr to give you a winner since you have best full draw

hg
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Re: marginal spots help

Postby hockeyguy » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:39 pm

hand 2

you are never going to fold this hand on that flop

nut flush and nut straight draw and an overcard, so if you arent folding you might as well bet vs a short stack and give youself a chance to get some fold equity vs Tx etc. Since he is a shorty i just shove the turn.

fyi- the in the tank time out stunt on flop is almost always a monster, but with your hand and his stack size it doesnt matter , i am getting it in on the turn

also i try to avoid the, i am beat because it has been a bad session reads, that means it is time for a break to relax and refocus, i would never give him credit for a flopped str8 since i have AQ, QJ less likely and way to many other hands hit this flop

hg
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Re: marginal spots help

Postby buggy » Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:20 pm

Thanks HG, I am trying to get out of getting caught in marginal spots because I'm just not good at playing them yet. My concern was that I was playing both hands too aggressively.
buggy
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:46 am

Re: marginal spots help

Postby hockeyguy » Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:36 pm

another quick thing about hand 2

if the guy has Kx you have 18 outs, which is about 55% equity which is fine in the long run you will be a small winner as Kx will not fold in 10nl games

but if the guy has 9x or Tx you have 21 outs as long as x is not an A or Q which give you closer to 60% equity which is a bit better, but they might fold to a turn bet which increases you equity from 60% to 100% which is a huge difference and benefit for you. That is why you should play monster draws very aggressive to increase fold equity not because you are rarely worse than a coin flip, the coin flip is the back up plan to forcing better hands/weak made pairs to fold and forfeit their equity if hand went to showdown. Their forfeited equity is your winrate builder.

hg
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