I'm Ken, I've been playing awhile, but new to here. Learning alot thanks. I used to play sng's but wasn't making consistant $$$. I've been seriously watching your video's about a month and worked a $10 deposit into $350. I'm playing .10/.25 6 max. It seems my bankroll's been kinda stuck there. I kinda like working my way up but feel i need to master this level first. I had a question about getting max value out of certain opponents: sometimes i get a call, sometimes i scare them off sometimes i check and they push ... I just wasn't sure if i was always getting my max value. I'm very aggressive and sometimes scare off $$$.

Thank you,

Ken

do you use a stat program?
if not you really should
i posted a response on similar issue under "new to outstanding poker" thread on aug 3 on how i use holdem manager stats to sort out the type players you mentioned, naturally it is one of tim's great tips in his videos on using a players aggrssion stats for each street

having recently moved up from 0.10/.025 i can testify it really helped at those stakes, and higher for that matter

secondly i take notes constantly as i play cuz the players at that level like to make the same move over an over, so you can really use the notes to get more value by anticipating their moves

2 of the more common moves at that level are
a flop check raze with a draw, check turn and bluff pot size bet on river with busted draw
or river bluff when river pairs the turn card for apparent runner runner trips, if the turn and river card doesnt complete/fit some type of straight draw it is a bluff or occasionally a flush draw that backdoored trips, but mostly bluffs

my main strategy at that level was to never sloplay anything except quads or a set with no draws out
ex. flop K72, if there is even any gut draw i just go ahead and bet, if they have nothing so be it, but i can't tell how many times i have stacked players at that level that sloplayed some "big hand" and i stacked them with a free card to hit a gut shot etc.
if i do sloplay a set on the flop i always over bet turn to charge any draw to try miracle suckout

the only exception to my sloplay rule is when i do have a player that is very aggressive if i check, then i go for check raise and try to get his stack in the center on the flop when he is way behind

but i generally follow tims strategy of betting out strong hands, since it is hard to get a player entire stack by checking flop and then betting turn river, the best way to get value from the stations is simply to bet and let them chase with weak hands

one last thing i can always here in the back of my head is from several of the videos where tim is analazing what opponent has
and then he decides to "push for value" on what appear to be scary boards, i have been doing this more using tim's hand reading lessons, it is amazing how many times weak hands will call the push assuming you missed a draw or just stupid curiosity. of course part of the key to getting them to call is betting each street along the way to build a pot they cant let go

hope some of this helps

atta22 is the man

hockeyguy wrote:do you use a stat program?
if not you really should
i posted a response on similar issue under "new to outstanding poker" thread on aug 3 on how i use holdem manager stats to sort out the type players you mentioned, naturally it is one of tim's great tips in his videos on using a players aggrssion stats for each street

having recently moved up from 0.10/.025 i can testify it really helped at those stakes, and higher for that matter

secondly i take notes constantly as i play cuz the players at that level like to make the same move over an over, so you can really use the notes to get more value by anticipating their moves

2 of the more common moves at that level are
a flop check raze with a draw, check turn and bluff pot size bet on river with busted draw
or river bluff when river pairs the turn card for apparent runner runner trips, if the turn and river card doesnt complete/fit some type of straight draw it is a bluff or occasionally a flush draw that backdoored trips, but mostly bluffs

my main strategy at that level was to never sloplay anything except quads or a set with no draws out
ex. flop K72, if there is even any gut draw i just go ahead and bet, if they have nothing so be it, but i can't tell how many times i have stacked players at that level that sloplayed some "big hand" and i stacked them with a free card to hit a gut shot etc.
if i do sloplay a set on the flop i always over bet turn to charge any draw to try miracle suckout

the only exception to my sloplay rule is when i do have a player that is very aggressive if i check, then i go for check raise and try to get his stack in the center on the flop when he is way behind

but i generally follow tims strategy of betting out strong hands, since it is hard to get a player entire stack by checking flop and then betting turn river, the best way to get value from the stations is simply to bet and let them chase with weak hands

one last thing i can always here in the back of my head is from several of the videos where tim is analazing what opponent has
and then he decides to "push for value" on what appear to be scary boards, i have been doing this more using tim's hand reading lessons, it is amazing how many times weak hands will call the push assuming you missed a draw or just stupid curiosity. of course part of the key to getting them to call is betting each street along the way to build a pot they cant let go

hope some of this helps

atta22 is the man

hockeyguy explained it very well. Excellent post.

You can't expect your opponents to always have a hand and pay you off when you flop big. It's a good thing if you think they perceive you to be too aggressive - they will call you down much lighter. But often times when you have a strong hand they just don't have anything at all and can't call your bets. Keep up the aggression and know when to put on the gas pedal and when to brake, and eventually they'll get fed up and make the wrong move at the wrong time and you'll get their stack.

atta22 wrote:
You can't expect your opponents to always have a hand and pay you off when you flop big. Keep up the aggression and know when to put on the gas pedal and when to brake, and eventually they'll get fed up and make the wrong move at the wrong time and you'll get their stack.

Tim of course is exactly right, nobody likes to keep getting raised or check raised
the difference between winning ang losing is patience
loose players want/need action, they don't have the disipline to be patient
(good players may have the same urge so they multi table to solve to action issue, 3 or 4 tables creates plenty of regular action
without being too difficult to kep track of)

but back to the math of loose players you can steal 2,3,4, 5 pots in row many times before they get fed up,
( i have had many players complain i raze too much and don't play real poker blah blah blah, boo hoo) so when they do
play back at you, you can give up a weak hand or can play for their stack if you have a big hand, either way i keep
razing and grind em down, or get their stack in a big pot. Notice the several pots you stole have at least 4 bb in them, and up to 12 bb or so if you 3 bet them out of each hand, but it is usually somewhere in between maybe around 8 bb, so if they limp ( trying to get you to raze) as weakies tend to do, you oblige and raze say 4 bb, then they come over the top, if you are weak you fold and are still about 4 bb ahead, Notice they have risked around 12 or 14 bb to win 4 bb and you get to decide if you are going to play a big pot (notice agin the power of position), if the timing has worked out and you have a big hand, you are likely to take their stack. either way you build your stack over the long run since they only got 4 bb back.

it is even more clear if you have a stats program and look at their 3 bet and 4 bet frequency/range if it is 1% or 2% you know you
needs QQ at a minimum to continue( by the way i might fold QQ and just look for a better spot- remeber loosey's are impatient you will get more opportunities), but if they have a 3 bet range around 10% and/or 4 bet % around 4% you can get in much lighter depending on the actual stats of that player.

in many instances the stats program is literally like looking at the opponents cards face up

be patient, in the lower levels yuo make money from their mistakes , not your fancy moves, and the players make so many mistakes you can't help but win

good luck

ps never mention you use the stats program, many players will mention they do which is useful info for you, you gain nothing