I must say I dont check-raise to much against one opponent. Im atm playing at the 30/20$ tables. Often when I am the aggressor I either Cbet the flop 80% of the time (when I hit, or have a draw or just air) or I just give up and check-fold.

Do I have to balance this with check-raises at this level? I dont do it often at all I must say. Maybe this makes me to easy to read? I just bet bet and bet I feel like but it does not feel to bad. If often work. But my goal would be to earn some more against the aggressive player.

Is it best to do this when, for example, if the flop is really dry, Q52 rainbow, I have AT, I was the pf-raiser and an aggressive opponent who called me pf (who have a high fold to C-bet) and has pos on me? I will check and he prob bet cause of the dry flop and I reraise him and he hopefully fold?

I guess there is some training-video on this subject but I havent watched it yet I think



Most of time I bet the flop OOP against one opponent. in about 23k hands I have bet the flop OOP against one opponent 554 times when I was the pfr. Compared to 730 times when I have pos on the flop.

I have only check-raised one opponent on the flop 6 times and they all have worked out. Like the hand last in the post.

I have only checked the flop 150 times OOP. Mostly on wet flops and then I have faced a float bet (bet after I checked oop on the flop) 53 timed of those 150 times.

Perhaps I could have earned abit more on those 554 times by checking against aggressive opponents?

Hope u did understand my thinking. What do u say about this?

Here is one of my 6 check-raises on the flop. The typical situation Im talking around.

******************************************************

SB: $20.80
BB: $21.18
Hero (UTG): $20.55
BTN: $12.37

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.20

Pre Flop: ($0.30) Hero has 6d 6s

Hero raises to $0.57, BTN calls $0.57, fold, fold

Flop: ($1.44, 2 players) 4c Qh 7d
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.60, Hero raises to $2.58, fold

Hero wins $2.51

**************************************************

/JohanW

interesting question Johan

I dont check raise much either and also wonder if i should do it a bit more

The first question i think is are you checkraising for value or as a bluff

At 50nl and lower most opponents are pretty straight forward so when they bet i dont think they have air or will fold weak pairs 55%+ (see math below), which of course why CR a made hand is profitable at micros
but CR bluffs not so much

my 2 typical CR spots areas follows

CR as a bluff

multiway in a limped pot on a raggy flop like J62, preferably rainbow so no draws
if it checks around to the button and they bet
i will check raise if it is a smallish bet or a taggy type player since both are very likely a steal
i only raise about pot as that folds the air and doesnt risk anymore than needed
i would say this works about 80% of the time at 50nl and lower. Notice if i bet/risk pot to win pot i only have to win 50% to show a profit. This situation occurs far less often at 100nl+, but is more common the lowe the stakes


CR for value
The other situation is if i pfr AK and flop comes K72 K83 rainbow or similar where there are no possible draws or very very unlikely draw AND the opponent has shown they will bet if i check showing weakness. I have the board so crushed that a Cbet will virtually never get action from worse. If the opponent has not slowplayed AA or flopped a set (in which case i am glad i checked) the most they can have is 5 outs w/ 7x 8 x type hands or 2 outs w/ a pocket pair. This typically letts me get a bit more value than a cbet AND prevents opponent from betting every time i pfr and check a raggy flop.

I sometimes although rarely do similar thing if i pfr a pp and flop a set on a very dry board heads up.
A flop like T62 if i have 666 or 222 is so hard for them to hit the flop i will give them a card to catch up or chance to bet. Altough i am more likely to check call and the lead the turn in this situation. I never check a set multiwway as a chance of an overpair or something else that can call is much greater than HU

The thing about a CR that is generally unappealling for me is the math
using 100nl as example do to simplicity of the math

lets say HU and pot is 10 on flop
opponent bets 7 after you check, pot is 17
you now CR to 21, you are risking 21 to win 17
you must win 55%+ to show a profit, you also offer your opponent good odds to call 14 to win 38
the bigger you bet on a check raise the more often it has to be successful
the smaller the bet the better the odds you give you opponent to call, holy lose lose situation Batman
if they call you have bloated the pot oop and dont know where you are unless you have a big hand
if your opponent has air they will fold, but they would have folded
air to a $7 donk bet that only has to work 41%+ to be profitable

i would rather donk $7 3 times with a chance to win $30 than CR $21 once to win 17

a lot of players like to CR draws, i dont as it bloats pot oop w/ an underdog hand most times
i prefer check call if i am getting odds or lead the draw to put pressure on opponent and disguise my hand

For some reason recently i have been tryin CR on flop HU at 100nl vs dry flops and taggy opponents w/ high cbet% and high fold to 3 bet %, so far it has worked horribly as i keep running into sets and overpairs or tptk and have just ended up wasting a bunch of chips. In spite of my bad timing to keep running into hands that will never fold i have made an effort to stop trying this play as the risk reward lowered my interest doing it as a bluff.

i'd be interested in others thoughts on the subject

hg

I see loose aggressive pfr callers almost always betting when the initial raiser checks oop on the flp. I tend to think most of the time they are bluffing to steal. I don't check raise much with air and I never ck raise when I think I have the best of it.

I think randomly ck raising with air occasionally (whether I win the pot or not) helps me in the long run vs the type player that always bets the the flp when I ck oop. Meaning that it will slow them down just a bit and get me a free card once in a while when I need it. Plus it helps my image that I'm not afraid to splash a little. (I think)?

Also of course it also depends on my read of the player and the board type.

I don't do this very often as a bluff (or for value, for that matter) - good players will read through it pretty easily. If I'm facing you and you c/r a dry flop, I'm asking myself, why would one check-raise a dry board here? Why would my opponent want me to fold if he has a monster? So I'd likely play back by calling and seeing a turn and using my positional advantage to look for weakness at some point (which will usually occur when the bluffing villain checks the turn).

And as the one doing the c/r, you are giving up balance by not just c-betting, since you need to have strong hands mixed in with your bluff cbets.

It's probably not a terrible idea to experiment with this line as a bluff against some opponents, but like I said above, it's pretty transparent. There's nothing wrong with check-folding as the pfr when you miss sometimes.

I'd focus more on double-barrel bluff opportunities since it mixes in much better with a balanced strategy that will make you tough to read.

Cheers,
Tim

Thank you for the answers guys! And thanks for the little lesson HG!

This is the line Im thinking in. Tim, somthing like this line of yours was in my mind when I thought about all this.

"focus more on double-barrel bluff opportunities since it mixes in much better with a balanced strategy that will make you tough to read."

Thats what I feel is the most important. Just bet, bet and I will be hard to read and then do some great thinking between the bets. Sometimes use another decision with a specific purpose.

I will try to do those checks on dry flops and I have hit hard against LAG players.


Not about CR but another thing.
I have also seen that when Im really aggressive at a table and I have called TAG player pf. I hit my set with my 55 on the dry board K52r. If im first to act I do a little donkbet and often gets him to reraise me. After that I can decide to reraise him or call and wait for his turn-bet. Like this one. If there wasnt two hearts on the flop I would prob just call his reraise on the flop. How about this kind of play? (I had a 3bet of 25% here and an aggression-factor of 19 over 60 hands.). I knew he was pretty tired of me. Perhaps he did just fold his AK or something.

Boss Media - €0.20 NL - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3: http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: €43.15
Hero (SB): €46.03
BB: €4.33
UTG: €10.25

Hero posts SB €0.10, BB posts BB €0.20

Pre Flop: (€0.30) Hero has 3s 3c

fold, BTN raises to €0.50, Hero calls €0.40, fold

Flop: (€1.20, 2 players) 3h Qh 6s
Hero bets €0.90, BTN raises to €3.00, Hero raises to €8.40, fold

Hero wins €6.85




Happy new year!

/JohanW

hi Johan

Happy new year

Personally i like the small donk 1/3 to 1/2 pot lead and do it with various hand types in various situations so that when i do it vs a tag pfr it doesnt look totally out of character. Frequently the TAGGY players read it as weakness (as it typically is by laggy microplayers) and they will raise, raise big, or even push it all in. This is especially true multiway as the TAG doesnt want to call and give odds to other players to call behind. Whether i 4 bet his raise depends on board texture, his bet size, our stacks, opponent style, and if it is HU or multiway, and our playing history.

A checkraise gets a cbet , but then folds many more weak hands, if i did checkraise here i would mn CR to keep weak in and think they could mprove, of course if he spazzes and reraises your CR then game on get it in

I think i would have just min 4 bet him to keep the pot growing as you are both deep and if he has a hand you want to keep the pot growing (if he is weak it doesnt matter). I dont normally worry about the draw heads up, there is no way he will fold it and most tags will raise big or push putting you on a Qx. But the rest of there range is likely to be AK, JJ TT, maybe AJ , QJ Qx. Virtually no TAG will fold KQ, and never fold AQ. But much of this range will call a min bet by convincing themselves they have outs. A naked AK, AK w/ a back door flush might peel, QJ-, will definitely peel, Ax might peel, under pairs might peel putting you on a draw etc. You really want them to have a chance to improve as they are so unlikely to overtake you, most likely they have only 2 outs or a runner runner draw. A good player would read the min bet/raise in this situation as "please dont fold" but that isnt how most micros think when the call is up to them. Strangely they do think this way w/ big hands and frequently bet small so you wont fold- Go figure

hg

I totally understand. I will try that min-reraise the next time in this situation. As u said he either call with his AK, JJ, TT etc or will prob go over the top with his AQ, KK, AA, QK etc.

I will try thay 1/3 donk aswell then.

Thanks for your reply!

/JohanW