Hi Guys,

Question about getting all in with QQ preflop, should I do it?

I'm still only playing a the low levels so people do get in light more often.

I put QQ into poker Stove against TT+, AQs+ and AKo and its basically a coinflip, so what do you guys think?

Today I ended up all in 3 way against AKo and TT (example of people getting in light) and an ace hit the board. Should I stick to AK, KK and AA?

Thanks Kitson.

I'd suggest no, but it totally depends on your opponent's ranges and your own 3bet/4bet/5bet range.

This is a question that shouldn't be generalized into "should I go all in with QQ every time." QQ as well as AK are very player dependent in my opinion. If a 15/12/2.5 guy shoves after I 4bet with QQ/AK, I'm folding every time. If a 45/36/12 guy shoves after my 4bet, I'm calling every time.

Generally, I would think against an ABC/TAG, I think flating a 3bet most of the time with QQ and AK is best at the micros, especially on the button against an tag player that 3bets light from the blinds. You aren't doing real well against opponents value shove range (AK, KK, AA, and the rare QQ) and four betting will get rid of air and worse value hands (occasional call/shove from JJ and AQ, but I wouldn't include TT). If you take out TT, JJ, and AQ, you are a 60/40 dog.

Nice analysis, thanks guys.

i don’t generally love QQ allin preflop vs an “average” opponents – especially if I am the caller for stacks- and generally agree w/ previous comments, but the following exceptions have typically been very +EV in my experience

vs any 3/4 stack or less, the smaller the stack the more i like QQ since their preflop allin range typically widens as their stack size shrinks. I think this is for 2 reasons:
partial stack players tend to be worse than average players- clueless on pot or implied odds
partial stacks become (or “feel” see above) more pot committed earlier since they are short

vs any laggy type that has a wide pfr preflop 22%+
vs any laggy type that has a wide 3 bet preflop 10%+
vs any laggy type that has a wide pfr preflop 50%+ in cutoff or button- they seem to chase/overplay more weaker hands (although Cudaflu makes a good point on opponents- mostly Tag types- mostly folding worse and raising w/ better in certain situations)
vs any laggy type that meets one of above criteria and i am the pusher, these types tend to call lighter than they 3 bet or 4 bet push

I generally prefer to be the 4 bet pusher vs these types as they tend to call lighter once they have 3 bet and have some money in the pot, as opposed to when they pfr and you 3 bet they don’t have much $$$ committed so are more likely to fold weaker hands and therefore have a significantly tighter 4 bet pushing range.

Also bet sizing is an important consideration when you pfr and get 3 bet, I will generally 4 bet QQ vs all opponents, but I will 4 bet about 3.5x the 3 bet amount vs virtually all opponents, but vs very nitty types only 4 bet 2.5x. You will be surprised how often the nits fold, if they call it is mostly AK, if they shove you can fold (assuming you are both full/deep stacked)- there is 1 related situation where I like to flat QQ, can you think of it?

10 nl- I rarely ever folded QQ at 10nl since these players have a much higher tendency to slowplay AA and spazz shove w/ A3s, 33, JT etc etc This dichotomy is significantly less common at 25nl and up in my experience. I generally only considered folding QQ at 10nl when I was the 3 bettor and a nitty type shoved over the top a full stack

There are other considerations that you may need to consider such as: position, your image, opponents image, opponent skill level to understand image, stack size-both deep?, your willingness to gamble etc.
Just remember QQ is a premium hand and should be played very aggressively, don’t give your opponent credit for AA or KK before you really have a reason to be concerned. An aggressive mistake is better than a passive mistake. In a 6 person game it is about 1/20 that an opponent has AA or KK when you have QQ, it is also about 1/20 an opponent has AK.

I think you mentioned recently you have just gotten a stats program Obviously stats help a lot to see if they are laggy or nitty so this is an area where the stats will help after you build up a bit of history on opponents.

hope this helps
hg

I'll only 4 bet/5 bet shove it when I've been 3/4 betting light, and I'll only do it against an opponent who I think is capable of playing back at me (reg tags and maniacs). It's always at least a 3 bet call though because it's at least got set value.

As always very good in-depth analysis . I only ask because I always seem to get action with QQ but almost never with AA, sod's law I guess

I would call a 3 bet and not shove from the guy in the picture I uploaded . Just because he'd bluff the a**se off any hand and not get all in PF with the rubbish he'd raise.

I came across this guy in a session just now and had to share, bottom line is aggression factor each street, line above is fold % per street and the rest are self explanatory.

Thanks for the helpful advice!
Kitson

embett wrote:
I would call a 3 bet and not shove from the guy in the picture I uploaded . Just because he'd bluff the a**se off any hand and not get all in PF with the rubbish he'd raise.

Kitson

A good example of why it is sometimes hard to answer some questions in forums because their is always a wierd example that requires a different type adjustment. But this a perfect example of thinking poker and the correct adjustment to get more value from a special kind of spazzopponent

well done

hg

I got into some situations today where I ended up correctly getting it in with AKo and QQ today.

Both situations were against regs and I had deep dynamics with both of them. In the QQ hand I had previously played a hand with this guy where I opened the CO with junk, got 3 bet from the sb, didn't believe him so I 4 bet bluffed him and he shoved over the top, subsequently I folded. Then this hand came up about 6 hands later:

***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (Bodog)
$100.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, July 06, 10:39:36 ET 2011
Table Eldusto (max 6) (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Seat 1: Hero ( $95.50 USD ) - VPIP: 19, PFR: 16, 3B: 5, AF: 3.5, Hands: 81740
Seat 2: Player2 ( $32.80 USD ) - VPIP: 34, PFR: 14, 3B: 0, AF: 2.8, Hands: 101
Seat 3: Player3 (Villain) ( $135.00 USD ) - VPIP: 22, PFR: 17, 3B: 6, AF: 4.4, Hands: 23804
Seat 4: Player4 ( $113.90 USD ) - VPIP: 26, PFR: 12, 3B: 3, AF: 2.4, Hands: 683
Seat 5: Player5 ( $57.05 USD ) - VPIP: 34, PFR: 10, 3B: 0, AF: 1.9, Hands: 595
Seat 6: Player6 ( $156.65 USD ) - VPIP: 55, PFR: 26, 3B: 0, AF: 4.3, Hands: 38
Hero posts small blind [$0.50 USD].
Player2 posts big blind [$1.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Qs Qh ]
Player3 raises [$3.00 USD]
Player4 calls [$3.00 USD]
Player5 folds
Player6 folds
Hero raises [$11.50 USD]
Player2 folds
Player3 raises [$29.00 USD]
Player4 folds
Hero raises [$83.50 USD]
Player3 calls [$63.50 USD]
Hero shows [Qs, Qh ]
Player3 shows [As, Kc ]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4c, Tc, 6h ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2d ]
** Dealing River ** [ 7h ]
Hero shows [Qs, Qh ]
Player3 shows [As, Kc ]
Hero wins $192.00 USD from main pot


Both of our ranges were much wider than normal in this situation so we both considered our hands to be ahead of each others ranges. Essentially though, you would need him to be occasionally bluffing or shoving with JJ to make going all in pre with QQ a +EV play. Due to the previous hand I knew that he knew I was apt to 4 bet bluff which meant that he would 5 bet value shove lighter as well as possibly put bluffs into his range.

Another situation arose a little later on another table. I was raising the cutoff light against a more aggressive reg. This guy plays back at me a lot and out of nowhere he decided to 3 bet me from the button. I was unsure about the strength of his hand as he had been quite inactive recently, but I decided that I would 4 bet bluff with JTs because I thought it was a great spot for him to bluff. He folded and 2 or 3 orbits later, this happend:

***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (Bodog)
$100.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, July 06, 10:42:53 ET 2011
Table Theatrical (max 6) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $91.40 USD ) - VPIP: 24, PFR: 20, 3B: 6, AF: 2.3, Hands: 5446
Seat 2: Hero ( $106.90 USD ) - VPIP: 19, PFR: 16, 3B: 5, AF: 3.5, Hands: 81740
Seat 3: Player3 (Villain) ( $157.20 USD ) - VPIP: 24, PFR: 20, 3B: 7, AF: 3.0, Hands: 12002
Seat 4: Player4 ( $33.65 USD ) - VPIP: 30, PFR: 13, 3B: 7, AF: 2.9, Hands: 697
Seat 5: Player5 ( $141.10 USD ) - VPIP: 30, PFR: 9, 3B: 1, AF: 1.9, Hands: 6190
Seat 6: Player6 ( $103.50 USD ) - VPIP: 23, PFR: 17, 3B: 8, AF: 2.7, Hands: 6729
Player4 posts small blind [$0.50 USD].
Player5 posts big blind [$1.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Kd As ]
Player6 folds
Player1 folds
Hero raises [$3.50 USD]
Player3 raises [$11.00 USD]
Player4 folds
Player5 folds
Hero raises [$21.50 USD]
Player3 raises [$146.20 USD]
Hero calls [$81.90 USD]
Player3 wins $50.30 USD
Hero shows [Kd, As ]
Player3 shows [4c, 3c ]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2s, 7s, Ad ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ]
** Dealing River ** [ Th ]
Hero shows [Kd, As ]
Player3 shows [4c, 3c ]
Hero wins $212.30 USD from main pot


So in this case, instead of my opponent opening up their range like they did in the first hand, they decided to try to bluff me. The thing both of these situations had in common though was the fact that I had been actively bluffing these opponents in the recent past. I'm sure everybody knows that if you follow the same line over and over again you start to get less credit for your hand strength from thinking opponents. Since I had developed a dynamic with these guys that said I was willing to put a lot of money into the pot pre flop with a lot of hands, I was able to get them to play back at me. When you know your opponent is willing to play back at you pre flop and that the only move available to him is to go all in, you have to be willing to treat QQ/JJ and AKo as premium hands and be willing to stack off with them.

One more thing I'll say about the two opponents. They are both winning TAG regulars and I have a tight aggressive long term image against them. Since we all know that we aren't going to win money off of each other by playing straight forward we have to make creative plays and try to outmaneuver each other. When you see a guy like this that you have a lot of history with (maybe 5k hands or more), and you have the image of being possibly out of line, you can start to consider stacking off pre with AKo and QQ. Otherwise you should stick to shoving those hands vs fish and maniacs while playing them more cautiously vs regs.

The situation between me and the second villain has decayed even further... this is a hand that happened today.

***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (Bodog)
$100.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, July 07, 10:37:24 ET 2011
Table Sky Lounge (max 6) (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 (Villain) ( $191.09 USD ) - VPIP: 24, PFR: 20, 3B: 7, AF: 3.0, Hands: 12262
Seat 2: Player2 ( $25.65 USD ) - VPIP: 29, PFR: 16, 3B: 4, AF: 1.8, Hands: 4332
Seat 5: Hero ( $111.00 USD ) - VPIP: 19, PFR: 16, 3B: 5, AF: 3.5, Hands: 82832
Hero posts small blind [$0.50 USD].
Player1 posts big blind [$1.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Kc Qc ]
Player2 folds
Hero raises [$2.50 USD]
Player1 raises [$9.00 USD]
Hero raises [$20.00 USD]
Player1 raises [$181.09 USD]
Hero calls [$88.00 USD]
Player1 wins $80.09 USD
Player1 shows [9d, 9c ]
Hero shows [Kc, Qc ]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6c, 7c, 3d ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Td ]
** Dealing River ** [ 5c ]
Hero shows [Kc, Qc ]
Player1 shows [9d, 9c ]
Hero wins $221.00 USD from main pot


Pretty sick hand... Soon we're just going to start shoving any 2 pre.