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The Atta22 move

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The Atta22 move

Postby widgewilliams » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:12 am

Added this hand for one reason.

http://www.outstandingpoker.com/poker-h ... 6229&new=1

I opened with A7s in middle position which is normally outside of my range for that position, and given that the villian was a 47/6 perhaps i should have been a little tighter.

Anyway, flop comes 2QJ monoboard. I land with the nut flush. Villian leads into me so i figure to just call his moves is the best option.

Turn comes 10 of clubs. Villian bets again. I call. I'm ahead of the straight anyway and still have the best hand.

River comes 5 spades. Villian checks to me, obviously fearful of the flush draw and rightly so :) If i bet the pot I think he would fold, if i check I win the hand anyway.

So i think for a minute, reach into my bag of tricks and pull out the Atta22 move and bet 1/2 pot hoping to show weakness or an attempted bluff. He calls and I win another $1.13.

Did I do that move correctly?
Should I have played the hand differently for a better result?
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Re: The Atta22 move

Postby cliff48 » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:00 am

Nicely done IMHO.

Cliff
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Re: The Atta22 move

Postby johanw » Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:44 am

Nice hand widge williams!

I think about his stats and he maybe would call a smaller (not to small) reraise on the flop and then call u down to the river. I guess he had like K7 of spades or something with his range of 47%. KQ-KJ offsuit with King of spade. My guess is that he would have called a little reraise on the flop and followed u with his whole stack on the river. But u never know! ;) He didnt seem to be the aggressive one who would try to get u out of the hand, I guess he thought he had the best hand untill he did see yours.

If he didnt have the king, it can be so. Your bet on the river was prob the best u could do. I think he would call an all in with the King of spades.

What u think of my review of the hand? I love to discuss.

Thanks for sharing your play!

Johan
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Re: The Atta22 move

Postby hockeyguy » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:26 pm

while it is always hard say exactly what any specific opponent will do. I think a raise of some sort on the turn and bet on the river will get more value in the long run. Notice if you raise the turn and still bet 1/2 pot on the river , you get more value since the river pot is bigger due to turn raise. This even more true if you raise the flop and bet turn and river. If the opponent had enough to bet twice and call the river he likely would have called 3 streets, players will not assume you flopped the nut flush. To get maximum value you need to try to grow the pot on every street. While you may have an opponent fold a weak hand early in the hand from time to time when you bet a big hand, but when you catch an opponent w/ top pair, top pair w/ a flush draw, 2 pair, or a set, or a hand that improves on the turn or the river you will get way more value than what little may be lost when the opponent has a very weak hand. Ideally you want to get their entire stack when they have a decent hand and you can't do that unless you start building the pot early and on every street. It took me a long time to learn the simple fact that i can't bet "scared" fearing they will fold, if they have something they will call, if they dont they fold, but you need to bet/raise to charge them the maximum when they do have something.

in this specific case you had a loose passive player 47/6 tat led into you, that is a hint that he has a hand he likes since he showed aggression, so i think a more aggresssive line would have extracted more value on this hand

hg
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Re: The Atta22 move

Postby killer_be_99 » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:39 pm

Ok.. first of all he donk leads into you. I take this as he has a huge draw or flopped a monster. He has a monster more often than he has a weak hand here.

However i know nothing about this guy.. Anyways I would raise him on the flop. Make him pay for a draw big draw. Or get all the money in against a aq, two pair or set type of hand. Non of which are folding.

Well maybe aq might cause we know we have the ace of spades. but a hand like kq with K of spades
aint folding. I don't like a smooth here at all on the flop IMO.

I don't like a call on the flop because a number of hands will kill your action. And you are the preflop raiser.

Errol
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Re: The Atta22 move

Postby atta22 » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:50 pm

Nice hand Widge. I agree with hockeyguy and Errol - raise the flop. Make him believe that you're on a draw or something. He's not going to fold any value hand he's leading into you with. You want to start building the pot so you can get it all in by the river.

I touched on this in my most recent video - slowplaying is usually the wrong play in most scenarios unless you have a very specific read and a long history with an opponent. I'd say it's 95% the wrong play at micro-stakes.
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Re: The Atta22 move

Postby widgewilliams » Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:49 pm

Hmmm, I see what you are all saying.

My thinking was that Villian clearly has a hand. I'm certain mine is better. I'll let him juice the pot and fire off a couple of barrels. Most of the times i've seen a board come down all the same suit and everyone has folded to the first person who bets the flop which is why I didnt c-bet, and likewise everytime I'm the preflop aggressor, have missed the flop on a monotone board and c-betted everyone has folded to. I didn't want to let him go. To be honest i just figured he didn't have a hand and was looking to pick up the pot then and there. Maybe it's a micro-stakes thing

Had I raised on the flop and he called, the pot would have been about the same size anyway, or at least that was my thinking.

Thinking about it though, and with what you are saying, I perhaps could have fired off a raise on the turn but if he had a pair, 2 pair, or even a set then he might have been fearful of not only the flush but that I had hit the straight, perhaps thinking i had raised preflop with AK or K9 or something, in which case I would have got nothing from my river bet.

You've given me alot to think about as I go to work.
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Re: The Atta22 move

Postby killer_be_99 » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:15 am

I perhaps could have fired off a raise on the turn


RAISE THE FLOP, read what the pros are saying!

Build the pot to get his whole stack in. If you get sucked out on so be it.
People at this level do not FOLD easy!
Goal here is to make the max money possible.

Errol
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Re: The Atta22 move

Postby widgewilliams » Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:05 am

Yes, you are right of course. That is after all why I am here.

What would you have done with this hand?

I actually figured he had A3 and had hit the straight on the flop but that my straight was better. I considered he might have hit a set but that I was still ahead. Unfortunately either of the turn or river gave him a fullhouse. Was i right to go call his all-in raise?

***** Hand History for Game 9570870183 *****
$4 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, August 27, 08:16:15 EDT 2010
Table Table 177624 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 6/6
Seat 3: D6rbel ( $5.72 USD )
Seat 6: Schrippe ( $4.94 USD )
Seat 1: Spiller350 ( $4.97 USD )
Seat 4: aleksabf ( $4 USD )
Seat 2: eimispok ( $5.22 USD )
Seat 5: Hero ( $10.18 USD )
Hero posts small blind $0.02 USD.
Schrippe posts big blind $0.04 USD.
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero 3h 6d
Spiller350 folds
eimispok calls $0.04 USD
D6rbel folds
aleksabf calls $0.04 USD
Hero calls $0.02 USD
Schrippe checks
** Dealing Flop ** 2c, 4s, 5c
Hero bets $0.16 USD
Schrippe folds
eimispok is all-In $5.18 USD
aleksabf folds
Hero calls $5.02 USD
** Dealing Turn ** 4h
** Dealing River ** 5s
Hero shows 3h, 6d a straight, Two to Six.
eimispok shows 2h, 2d a full house, Twos full of Fives.
eimispok wins $10 USD from the main pot with a full house, Twos full of Fives.
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Re: The Atta22 move

Postby cliff48 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:37 am

Hi Widge,

I fold preflop. Out of position with no hand. Completing the SB with those kind of hands is a leak IMO.

Cliff
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