Hi!

I need some help with analysing my numbers.
Im looking on stats from my c-bets, double barrels and triple barrels. I also look on when I have checked in those situations. Here are the stats. They are based on my 75000 hands so far in 2011. All played on 25€ (32$).

Flop:
Cbet, winnings: 1837€
Checked when Cbet opportunity, winnings: 21€

Turn:
Double barrel, winnings: 1234€
Checked when DB opportunity, winnings: -830€ (negative)

River:
Triple barrel, winnings: 482€
Checked when TB opportunity, winnings: 209€


As u prob think I wonder about the nagative number on the turn, when I check after have been doing a c-bet on the flop. I have a negative number here and I have positive numbers on the others. At this time in my pokertraining im alot into thinking about when to double barrel and triple barrel. Yesterday I double barreled (in good situations) like no time before and It went very well. So I would like to see this as a confirmation that im on the right way, when Im trying to do DBs alot more. And TB aswell.

So why is the negative number so high? When I do give up, others bet cause there is one street to go, there are a nice pot to win? Semibluffs? Float-Bet? And if they had a mediocre hand on flop where they called and I checked the turn they have betted or checked down and won on the river. In those situations I would prob won alot with a DB, and then perhaps a TB against the right opponents? Am I right?

Other stats that may be interesting are what I did on the river when I did check my DB opportunity:
Flop C-bet, checked turn, checked river, winnings: -210€ (negative)
Flop C-bet, checked turn, bet river, winnings: 113€
Fold turn after a Flop C-bet, checked turn, winnings: -339€ (negative)
Call turn after a Flop C-bet, checked turn, winnings: -16€ (negative)
Fold river after a Flop C-bet, checked/called turn, winnings: -74€ (negative)
Call river after a Flop C-bet, checked/called turn, winnings: 4€

Do these stats tell something or do I have to show more stats to get a better picture?
I do really see this like I have to continue to Double Barrel more in the right situations.
Thanks for help!

JohanW

Interesting question Johan
and great idea to spend time away from tables to analyze your game and results which is something i dont think most micro/begining players do enough.

as to the stats, i always like to look at the number of hands for each stat to help get a feel for if the results are representative of my play or skewed by a few big hands that were lucky or unlucky suckouts.

AS to the results, it generally looks like you are making good decisions,
for instance it should be expected to win more when you decide to double barrel than when you decide not to, if you felt it was a good DB situation, you would have but generally dont DB when it doesnt look like a good spot. So the winnings when you dont DB you should expect to not win as much since you have decided these are not as good/+EV situations as so pot control is more appropriate than a DB

The fact that DB wins on turn are more than DB losses means you are picking +EV spots to DB which is what the long term EV analysis and putting opponents on a range is all about. So then the question becomes can you do even better in these spots. This requires looking at a bunch of hands to find specific situations that DB didnt work out and a check would have been better or when a check was made but a DB would have been better. But dont beat yourself up over specific hands since you cant make perfect reads everytime. I look for specific repeating trends.

on the river i would check for more value betting opportunities since TB is winner and check is also good winner, there might be alot of hands that a third value bet could be made and called, even if it is a bit smaller to let weak crap call. You will almost never get bluff raised after betting flop and turn so you can easily bet river and fold to big raise at 25nl. Again you need to look at hands to see if true.

other stats you mentioned
Other stats that may be interesting are what I did on the river when I did check my DB opportunity:
Flop C-bet, checked turn, checked river, winnings: -210€ (negative)
you cant win em all, looks like giving up when behind which is fine

Flop C-bet, checked turn, bet river, winnings: 113€
bet into weakness good, getting value from non top pair hands or hands that improved

Fold turn after a Flop C-bet, checked turn, winnings: -339€ (negative)
you cant win em all, looks like giving up when behind which is fine
sometimes can checkraise air vs tag types that will bet anything after you cbet/check indicating AK types hands that missed- take note to identify these types

Call turn after a Flop C-bet, checked turn, winnings: -16€ (negative)
no worries

Fold river after a Flop C-bet, checked/called turn, winnings: -74€ (negative)
not bad, folding weak hands/ missed draws

Call river after a Flop C-bet, checked/called turn, winnings: 4€
fine, not being too weak tight

one thing to look at is ratio of wins/losses on flops you cbet not just total winnings
below is just a guess since your thought gave me an idea
but since you play taggy, you should be ahead most hands preflop (75%????? since so many loose donks in w/ rags) and there fore also on most flops (65%???? since in multiway pots you can expect to get outflopped, but hu you should still be ahead about the same % postflop) plus when you add in aggression you should win WAYYYYYYYYY more than you lose on cbet hands. this is atotal guess w/o looking at my results but i would think 4/1 or more is not unreasonable. i will look and report back on my results

posts like this are great to help others think about their game and how to analyze their results

gl
hg

Thank you very much for your answer HockeyGuy, really appreciate it alot!
Really good to be mirrored. I have pasted in some stats into a bit of my old message, number of hands etc.
Would be really nice to see some of your stats on the same subject.

I think it looks like im in the right way when i now have started to Double Barrel mor, I think those numbers show that. Like a DB of 55-58% instead of 47% would perhaps be better?

Best wishes from Johan


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Hi!

I need some help with analysing my numbers.
Im looking on stats from my c-bets, double barrels and triple barrels. I also look on when I have checked in those situations. Here are the stats. They are based on my

75000 hands so far in 2011. All played on 25€ (32$).

Flop:
Cbet, winnings: 1837€ (I do this 4150 times when the opportunity is 5429 times, 77%) (Success 47%)
Checked when Cbet opportunity, winnings: 21€ (I do this 1274 times when the opportunity is 5429 times, 23%) (then folded flop 209 times)

Turn:
Double barrel, winnings: 1234€ (I do this 766 times when the opportunity is 1618 times, 47%) (Success 266 times of 766 times, 35% success)
Checked when DB opportunity, winnings: -830€ (negative) (I do this 852 times when the opportunity is 1618 times, 53%) (then folded turn 149 times)

River:
Triple barrel, winnings: 482€ (I do this 132 times when the opportunity is 327 times, 40%) (Success 82 times of those 132 times, 62% success)
Checked when TB opportunity, winnings: 209€ (I do this 195 times when the opportunity is 327 times, 60%) (then folded river 23 times)


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I will analyse the turn check abit more. What I do when I dont fold after my check. I do just fold 149 of the 852 times when I check. I guess i check-raise some times and call, call sometimes, nice to see how the majority of the hands is played.

Johan

Hi Johan,

nice post! Are you using Holdem Manager? I'm trying to do the same excersise but I cannot find all the right filters.

I go to: reports/filter/filter by actions. There I can filter by preflop actions as well as flop/turn/river actions. I want to filter 'checked when c-bet opportunity'. How do I do that?
I had a look at my 21000 hands on players only (25nl and 50nl)

When I select 'bet' on flop: + $1.324,-
bet on flop and bet on turn:+ 444,-
but flop, turn, river: + 240,-

*note:I couldnt find a filter called 'cbet'. I think 'bet' is not the same as 'cbet', but since Im a 23/21 tag I think there is hardly a difference.

Happy that these numbers are positive, although they are probably by far not optimal. For me an interesting comparison to my hands on ultimate bet (where I have bad results:)

After 10.000 hands:

bet on flop: + 162,-
bet on turn: + 32,-
but on river + 101,-

Indeed: this looks bad! Although it does seem like a weird difference, I may have been on some sort of tilt, but Im still the same player. Now I want to see what happens if I check with a betting opportunity!

Hi Legian!

Im using PokerTracker! Dont know Holdem Manager, but it seems nice.

I have a filter that is called "Turn Cbet Opportunity Checked" and its based on that I did a flop C-bet. That is when I did not getted donkbeted on the flop and was the preflop raiser and got called.

I dont get the C-bet opportunity on the turn if i get donkbeted. So if u can filter "NOT donkbeted" on turn and "checked turn" after a C-bet on flop I guess it will be the "Turn Cbet Opportunity Checked" stat.

Did this help?
/Johan

Hockeyguy (and everyone else).

Seems like the bigger loss on checking my Double Barrel opportunity on turn comes from the opponent bet into me on the river. Not surprising I guess. Im going to think about those number more later. Some work in the garden waiting for me.

Turn:

Checked when DB opportunity, winnings: -830€ (negative) (I do this 852 times when the opportunity is 1618 times, 53%) (then folded turn 149 times)

Called when opponent beted, 64 times, winnings -17€ (negative)
Raised when opponent beted (check-raised), 9 times, winnings 27€

Checked/Checked, 630 times, winnings -502€ (negative)
Then on river:
I checked, opponent checked, 225 times, winnings -109€ (negative)
I checked, opponent beted, I folded, 43 times, winnings -94€ (negative)
I checked, opponent beted, I called, 15 times, winnings 35€
CheckRaise, 6 times, winnings 9€

Opponent beted into me, I folded, 225 times, winnings -465€ (negative)
Opponent beted into me, I called, 47 times, winnings -50€ (negative)
Opponent beted into me, I raised, 16 times, winnings 42€ (negative)

I beted, opponent folded, 36 times, winnings 69€
I beted, opponent called, 21 times, winnings 63€
I beted, opponent raised, 7 times, winnings -43€ (negative)

/Johan

I am not a great stats player. So the only advice i can give on this subject is: Don't get too Hung up on all the numbers..stats can be great in alot of situations. But I think handreading is so much more important.. and ofcourse stats help with the handreading

I have never looked at my own stats like you are describing now. And I don't think I ever will.

I am not saying what you are doing is wrong.. But maybe there are other ways to spend your time to improve your game better..

Just some food for your thoughts

Hi Morten!

Acually its the first time I do this kind of analysis, just to see how it looks. I like playing 98% of the time I spend on poker!

Hi everyone

A few things all in one post here

Fisrt i basically agree w/ Mort not to get too hung up on stats. I use them to away from table to look for leaks in very common recurring situations where a leak could cost me a lot over the long run. I think the double barrel fits that category( the triple barrel not so much especially at micros since they dont fold made hands after they call turn bet- so value bet made hands on river, but not AK it will already beat missed draws so only get called by better)

Secondly as to the filter combos on HM for legion. Go into filters/more filters then the options are divided by streets. For cbet opportunity scroll to flop and you get cbet opportunity T/F, cbet made T/F
pick T for both, then you can add saw river false- shows hand ended after your cbet( it may include a few times you got check raised off weak hand- but should bet close enough) for turn DB sames options so you end up w/
flop cbet opportunity T
flop cbet T
saw turn T
Turn cbet opportunity T
Turn cbet made T
saw river T or F depening if you want to look at 3 barrels or see results that 2 barrel ended

can use hand value filters tab under filers to combine per my comment below

and finally here are my results for similar filtering to Johan

Hi again Johan
Here are results from some of my older stats at similar stakes
58,000 hands played on 25nl at Bodog

Flop:
Cbet, Won $1775/200bb/100hands overall in hands where cbet possible
(I cbet 2574 times when the opportunity is 3532 times, 73%) (Success 58% saw no turn)
Of the 1490 cbets that ended hand (Won $1778/474bb/100hands)
Of the 1084 cbets that did not end hand (won $181/66bb/100hands)
I did not cbet 958 times when the opportunity is 3532 times, 27%) won-$178/-72bb/100 hands
Of the 958 non cbets i check folded 188 ,19%, lost -$155 (of the -$178 total lost when i did not cbet)
So lost $23, when checked and continued hand
Overall Won $1948/302bb/100 hands when cbetting


Turn:
Cbet, Won $78/39bb/100hands overall in hands where 2 barrel possible
Double barrel, winnings: $720/ 798bb/100 hands (I do this 361 times when the opportunity is 801 times, 47%) (Success 141 times of 361 times, 39% success- saw no river)
Of the 220 2 barrels that did not end hand (won $413/751bb/100hands)
Checked when DB opportunity, winnings: -$642 (negative) (I do this 440 times when the opportunity is 801 times, 54%) (then folded turn 76 times, 17%, -$275/-1451bb/100hands)
So lost $467, when checked turn and continued 364 hands after a C bet – 513bb/100 hands

River:
Triple barrel opportunities, winnings: $460/1460bb/100 hands
Triple barrel, winnings: $442 (I do this 52 times when the opportunity is 126 times, 41%) (Success 38 times of those 52 times, 73% success???? Saw no showdown), I really want more calls on value bets here Since i virtually never 3 barrel bluffing these levels so the “success” of the opponent folding is a false victory, i am always wanting a call here


Checked when TB opportunity, winnings: $18 (I do this 74 times when the opportunity is 126 times, 59%) (then folded river 8 times, -$63)
FYI 100nl turn results
Turn:
Cbet, Won $817/184bb/100hands overall in hands where 2 barrel possible
Double barrel, winnings: $2327/ 1206bb/100 hands (I do this 193 times when the opportunity is 436 times, 47%) (Success 89 times of 193 times, 46% success- saw no river) won $945/1062bb/100 hands
Of the 104 2 barrels that did not end hand (won $1381/138 bb/100hands)
Checked when DB opportunity, winnings: -$1507 (negative) (I do this 243 times when the opportunity is 436 times, 53%) (then folded turn 33 times, 17%, -$427/-1295bb/100hands)
So lost $1080, when checked turn and continued hand 210 times after a C bet – 514bb/100 hands

After all this it is hard to say what some of these mean from a good or bad standpoint as i have nothing to compare them to from better or worse players. Also from a double or triple barrel standpoint a more interesting stats would be how often you/I made a double or triple barrel w/ a non made hand. For instance making a pfr w AK and cBetting the flop/turn/river on a board like K9285 is expected and just basic value poker. Whereas making a pfr w/ AK and c betting a Q9273 board and then barrelling the turn and river to push an opponent off a hand like 88 or A9 etc where you not only win with the worse hand , but also get more “value” by forcing them off the best hand after they put more $$$$ in by calling a flop cbet and maybe a turn cbet as well. This can be done by combining the hand values filters w/ the cbetting/barrelling filter combinations but will have to wait for another day when i have more time.

Hope this helps and am interested in any feedback or observations on these stats
hg