This is possibly the best video I have viewed for where I am in my game at this time. It clearly shows my aggression is lacking and how to start implementing 3 and 4betting which is something you see very little of at the micros. I will review and take a ton of notes on this vid. I will report back in a few days on how it is affecting my game. Thanks again hg.

Cliff48

Why is there very little 3 betting in micros nl, fear i think, it was for me, i was always worried i was going to run into aa kk qq ak.

So here are some useful stats if you are starting to work 3 betting into your game
aa odds 1/220 hands or about 0.5%, kk qq jj same
ak1/110 or about 1%, aq aj same
THIS ASSUMES THIS IS A STANDARD RANGE MOST MICRO PLAYERS WONT FOLD TO A 3 BET- varies a bit from player to player but a good place to start for micro games

so aj+ and jj+ hands are about 7% of hands, so any one raising over 7% is raising a lot of hands that DO NOT ENJOY BEING 3 BET/CANT CONTINUE WHEN THEY GET 3 BET, nobody likes getting 3 bet unless they have KK or AA

so when you see a 30% button raiser, you can see that maybe 1/4 of his hand range you will get called for sure when you 3 bet, but most hands will have to fold. Typically i like a 3 bet defend w/ 77+, KTs+, A8s+ to start, this is about 4%+3%+5%= about top 12% hands, notice your range dominates his if he calls w/ his entire range, which of course he cant
( i also toss in 56s types, 9Ts types, 22-66 depending on opponent, but no need when starting out w/ more 3 bets)

To be most effective you need to pick the proper part of this 3 bet range to each hand situation,
eg Dont raise Tag opponent utg pfr w/ KJ
in this situation i 3 bet AQs+, QQ+ , flat w/ any pocket pair, fold AJ- typically
but entire 3 bet range is fine vs 30% button stealer,
another eg, if you 3 bet A8s vs a 24% button raiser and get 4 bet, it is fine to fold


this is key, DO NOT WUSS OUT AND MAKE A SMALL 3 BET IT WILL GET CALLED MORE, MAKE A 3X 3 BET MINIMUM, i prefer 3.5 to 4x
BET LIKE YOU HAVE THE BIG HAND YOU ARE REPRESENTING ESPECIALLY WHEN DEFENDING YOUR BLIND


fyi - i use about same range to 3 bet squueze, meaning a hand where pfr gets called by 1 or more before action gets to you, then i put in 3 bet to fold every one out, mostly you only need to get original pfr to fold and rest will fold as well, if they had a big hand they would have 3 bet themselves

hopes this gives some more clarity to the issue, enjoy 3 betting is fun and really lets you dominate the table

gl hg

I am just learning how to use HEM and need to know how to post hands to the forum from that program. I can get the hands but the format they come in is huge and has a lot of stuff which is unneeded, time stamp etc. Any help would be appreciated. I had an interesting hand this morning which I would like comment on.

cliff48

if you go to the lower pane where the hands are listed you can right click and a pop up menu lets you chose
"view selected hand history" which give a simple hh you can copy and paste into forum post

you can use filters to narrow the hands displayed if it is hard to find, i usually just filter to my hole cards and that makes it easy to find the hand you want

hg

Thanks hg

Cliff48

Interesting hand. Villian is 71/16 over 21 hands. Cost me a stack.

***** Hand History for Game 2486788378 ***** (Merge)
$10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, May 23, 08:52:55 ET 2010
Table Lima (24867883) (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Seat 1: pathavingfun ( $6.36 USD )
Seat 2: cliff48 ( $10.55 USD )
Seat 3: ChangTW ( $5.66 USD )
Seat 4: holdemquantumdream ( $12.48 USD )
Seat 5: cluj13 ( $9.09 USD )
Seat 6: Doroty555 ( $13.34 USD )
pathavingfun posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
cliff48 posts big blind [$0.10 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to cliff48 [ Td Jc ]
ChangTW folds
holdemquantumdream calls [$0.10 USD]
cluj13 calls [$0.10 USD]
pathavingfun calls [$0.05 USD]
cliff48 checks
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jd, Jh, 6h ]
pathavingfun checks
cliff48 bets [$0.30 USD]
holdemquantumdream calls [$0.30 USD]
cluj13 calls [$0.30 USD]
pathavingfun folds
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2d ]
cliff48 bets [$0.90 USD]
holdemquantumdream calls [$0.90 USD]
cluj13 folds
** Dealing River ** [ Qs ]
cliff48 bets [$2.20 USD]
holdemquantumdream raises [$11.18 USD]
cliff48 calls [$7.05 USD]
holdemquantumdream shows [6c, Js ]
cliff48 shows [Td, Jc ]
holdemquantumdream wins $1.93 USD
holdemquantumdream wins $20.52 USD from main pot

cliff48

cliff48 wrote:Interesting hand. Villian is 71/16 over 21 hands. Cost me a stack.

***** Hand History for Game 2486788378 ***** (Merge)
$10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, May 23, 08:52:55 ET 2010
Table Lima (24867883) (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Seat 1: pathavingfun ( $6.36 USD )
Seat 2: cliff48 ( $10.55 USD )
Seat 3: ChangTW ( $5.66 USD )
Seat 4: holdemquantumdream ( $12.48 USD )
Seat 5: cluj13 ( $9.09 USD )
Seat 6: Doroty555 ( $13.34 USD )
pathavingfun posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
cliff48 posts big blind [$0.10 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to cliff48 [ Td Jc ]
ChangTW folds
holdemquantumdream calls [$0.10 USD]
cluj13 calls [$0.10 USD]
pathavingfun calls [$0.05 USD]
cliff48 checks
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jd, Jh, 6h ]
pathavingfun checks
cliff48 bets [$0.30 USD]
holdemquantumdream calls [$0.30 USD]
cluj13 calls [$0.30 USD]
pathavingfun folds
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2d ]
cliff48 bets [$0.90 USD]
holdemquantumdream calls [$0.90 USD]
cluj13 folds
** Dealing River ** [ Qs ]
cliff48 bets [$2.20 USD]
holdemquantumdream raises [$11.18 USD]
cliff48 calls [$7.05 USD]
holdemquantumdream shows [6c, Js ]
cliff48 shows [Td, Jc ]
holdemquantumdream wins $1.93 USD
holdemquantumdream wins $20.52 USD from main pot

cliff48

Hi Cliff
The same thing just happened to me , i had jt, he had qj in a 6 way pot at 25nl ten seat game and a JJ4 flop.
i should have known better with that many people in a full ring game, but just didn't use my head in the heat of battle.


The main thing i would take from the hand is why it is important to raise preflop
when you play a pot 3,4,5 way the number of goofy hands that can be in there are
endless, raising weeds them out/makes them pay to try to get lucky.

As to the hand you posted, the combo of a Q on the river and shove is concerning giving how much
people like to play qj, however players at this level will just assume their trip jacks are good
w/o concern for their kicker so you cant assume qj is his only hand. But the thing is every one can see the 2 jacks on the flop
so after you lead twice w/ no real draws on the brd and then get shoved, it is pretty safe to
assume that the other j is out, then it is a question of kicker. Your T is better than about half
of the possible kickers, but also trails 66, 22. When he shoves you cant expect to be best much more than
half the time, but pot odds are good enough i think to make the call at this level. I would guess your EV is around 0 on a call/fold.
So be happy when you are best and not surprised when you are beat, in the long run this wont happen enough to
affect your winrate, so i wouldnt lose too much sleep over it, you were on the wrong end of a limped pot cooler.

for the record my play in similar situation at 10 seat games was far worse since odds of 66. 22, or a bigger kicker
are substantially higher w 9 other seats at the game.

hg

I was not surprised to get beaten, as you said I figured the J was out and thought he might have the Q. I was a little surprised that he had flopped the FH and the fact that people will limp with anything. I still have a hard time laying down what could be the best hand.

I started 3betting a little more yesterday and found it to be profitable. I do find that a lot of people will leave the table when there is a fair amount of aggression at the game. Especially when the aggressor is winning most of the hands he/she is playing. If I had not lost the above hand and one other which was similar I would have had a good day. I ended the day down about seven dollars which was not too bad considering I got stacked twice.

Thanks for the response,

cliff48