I have recently started to add 3betting to my game and have a basic understanding of how to start implementing it. I am curious about check/raise situations. Currently if I think I am best, I will value bet. I know there are times I should check/raise but just not sure when. Some examples and ideas would be appreciated.

cliff48

Oops! I meant to post this on general chat. Would like it moved by a mod if possible.
Thanks
Cliff48

hmmmm... well for me check/raising falls into the slowplaying category that I tend to avoid at small stakes, because these guys are just gonna pay you off anyway.

However, read dependent, there are a few situations c/r'ing can work.

Number one is hitting a boat vs your opponents draw.

For example you hold Qx10x

flop Qh10s5h

lead, opp flats

turn 4c

lead again, opp flats

river 10h

Now, here is a good opportunity for a c/r. Assuming your opponent is on a draw here (remember we're doing this read dependant) he is either holding 8J, KJ or a flush draw. I've eliminated gutshots from his range but he could maybe hold hands like 8h9h or AhKh.

Ok so we've figured his drawing range.

Now obv if he's hit the flush on the river and isn't a super-nit, you're gonna get at least an extra bet out of him. A case could certainly be made for leading here as you are likely to then get 2 extra bets.

Leading
Ie. you bet - opp raises - you re-raise - opp calls (4 bets)

opposed to c/r

you check - opp bets - you raise - he calls (3 bets)

This isn't to say you're opponent will just flat after you c/r, in fact a lot of low stakes players wont pay attention to your hand but only there own and assume "ah I hit my flush, I have the best hand".


Ok so you may get an extra bet if you lead out but c/r'ing works well here for another reason.

Lets say your opponent has the open ender and thus has missed the river.

Well if you lead now, your opponent is more than likely going to fold. But if we check, it opens up the possibility for him to bluff the river. You may even get super lucky and see him over ship all in, in a desperate attempt to get you to fold.

If he checks back on the river, you havent really lost any value because he was never going to call your river bet anyway.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Matt, it does help.

cliff48

What is the number of that video? If some one bets 1/3 of the pot i am looking to it as mostly a steal attempt or someone trying to see where he is. I mostly bet the pot to get and they mostly fold. I am not sure if it would be better to 3 bet them instead betting full pot. I have not see the video yet! Any grammar mistakes than it is cause English is not my fist language.

Thanks for all the help!

Matt makes several points I totally agree with

I kind of put the river type situation Matt described into inducing a bluff category since if they bet a busted draw they fold to a check raise, although you do get an extra bet. But that is just how my pea brain tries to organize things.

I was mostly thinking about check raising earlier in the hand
Here are my thoughts on ck raze in micros 50nl and down

I virtually never do it w/ a big hand with the following exceptions

If I flop the nuts like A hi flush or a full house, or quads, vs. several opponents or 3 way or more w/ a really aggro player to my left. Then I will check if I am confident someone to my left will bet and then make a min bet/smallish 1.5x or 2x check raise this grows the pot and prices in draws that are drawing dead. Then I lead turn to keep pot growing, but make sure to price in draws. The actual raise size depends on flop and number of opponents, If I have 44 on a 455 flop I make a smaller raise, but w/ JJ on a JTT flop or JT on a JJT flop the raise is a bit more since more likely draws out that could chase, same deal w/ # of opponents the more the bigger the bet, the better chance to get a spazzy play.

You have to use judgment on if they are drawing (you don’t want to ruin their draw odds) or if they are a station and will call a couple bigger bets. Basically your bet sizing depends on what you think opponent has and will call. If things go well they spazz out and try to represent what you actually have and shove. That’s why I lead at a lot of paired flops
So when I have it I am more likely to get action. Notice if I have led at previous paired flops I definitely Do Not try a check raise. You want to play different type hands in similar fashion.


I never slowplay sets or 2 pairs w the rare exception sometimes top set KKK qqq jjj, heads up if no draw possible. Meaning I need rainbow k82 so no flush or str8 draw possible, same w q72. I might check JJJ on a rainbow flop to let an over hit, j62 is pretty harmless I never slowplay AAA, a little know fact there is always a str8 draw on any Axy flop, Abigx gives at least a gut, Asmallx same, Amiddlemiddle same, plus people love to chase vs. an A hi flop since most micros can’t let a pair of aces hand go, they think they will get paid if their draw hits.


Where I do check raise pretty frequently is the following type situation(most players at micros don’t recognize when you check raise, just that you do it) so this is plenty for your image. If I am in sb or bb, heads up or multiway, it checks around (it is especially good if everyone instachecks) to last player who makes a bet, especially a smallish bet, I then know odds are nobody has anything and bettor thinks same so he trying to steal. A pot size check raise wins pot about 90% of the time. I do it with air, a draw, or any non top pr hand, and sometimes w/ weak top pr like 92 on a 953 flop. I don’t do it on a draw heavy board (unless I have the nut draw) as I am too likely to get called and be oop. I will typically not check raise if I have decent top pr (TT+) and a decent kicker, I typically want them to bet turn again.


Occasionally I will check a made hand like AK on k83 rainbow heads up vs. a VERY AGGRESSIVE player who has already bet me off a hand or two in recent hands. notice all the things that need to be present

1) a hand that is almost draw proof on next card
2) an aggressive opponent
3) a history of being pushed off a hand by that opponent

Why do I only do this rarely, because if he is aggressive more money goes in middle if I lead at pot and then he raises plus check raise screams big hand (what do you assume when you get check raised?) and will shut down/fold most weaker hands. A lead bet that gets raised gives you more options to build a pot, you can 3 bet, smooth call and lead next card, call and try check raise on the next card. I prefer 3 bet or call lead, the call check hoping to raise allows possible free card, the other options always get more money in the pot


Hope this helps